Setting Input Level er Guitar

[Don Watters]

Does anyone know of a simple way to assign the Input Level in General Settings for each guitar you own? I find myself resetting the input level so that my active pickup guitars don’t clip, but then set the passive pickup guitars to a higher level to get a decent signal to the input block. I was thinking of adding something like a general setting block to the wish list or something like a guitar memory setting that saves the input level for that name, that could be assigned to the input level quickly, so that I don’t have to go through the process of checking for clipping or write down every preset that uses a specific level setting,

 

[chris]

set the Axe-Fx for the loudest guitar and leave it there.

Input Level sets a signal-to-noise ratio.

just play.

 

[unix-guy]

To expand on what Chris said, the Input Level setting is for optimizing the A/D converters.

It doesn't affect the actual signal level of the guitar... If you need to compensate for actual signal level, you can stick a volume or null filter block (or various other blocks) and boost or cut the level.

 

[Don Watters]

Thanks for the quick response. That doesn’t seem to work well for guitars that have active pickups with preamp circuits in them. I have to set the input to about 3% for those guitars, and even then there can be a small amount of red light activity. As the manual outlines, input levels below 5% are susceptible to gain stage differences. So, then the passive pickup guitars just don’t have the same reaction/bite. Anyone else with this issue?

 

[unix-guy]

Thanks for the quick response. That doesn’t seem to work well for guitars that have active pickups with preamp circuits in them. I have to set the input to about 3% for those guitars, and even then there can be a small amount of red light activity. As the manual outlines, input levels below 5% are susceptible to gain stage differences. So, then the passive pickup guitars just don’t have the same reaction/bite. Anyone else with this issue?

Wow... Those are some hot pickups!

Any way to lower the output of the pickups at the guitar side? Maybe a trim pot on the preamp...

From what I know, I would avoid going less than 5%...

 

[Don Watters]

The Ernie Ball Music Man Majesty line has a preamp circuit, that can in fact be turned down. One of the best parts about the guitar is being able to boost though. So, it’s a bummer to not be able to use it. I use it on my amps without issue. The boost has a really creamy tone in the bridge for solos, with the boost on. But then when I go to use my Ibanez RG570 or almost anything else passive, the signal is too low to push the input above 2 lights... (not the best measurement, but it’s what I see). I don’t hear the same bite in the tone, especially for lower E string notes. So, to compensate, I go change the input level percentage. :/

 

[unix-guy]

The Ernie Ball Music Man Majesty line has a preamp circuit, that can in fact be turned down. One of the best parts about the guitar is being able to boost though. So, it’s a bummer to not be able to use it. I use it on my amps without issue. The boost has a really creamy tone in the bridge for solos, with the boost on. But then when I go to use my Ibanez RG570 or almost anything else passive, the signal is too low to push the input above 2 lights... (not the best measurement, but it’s what I see). I don’t hear the same bite in the tone, especially for lower E string notes. So, to compensate, I go change the input level percentage. :/

But that's not what the control does... Except maybe in the case where you are below 5%.

You aren't going to have that same bite because the instrument level is much less.

Turn up the Amp block Input Drive (or Input Trim), or add a volume block as mentioned above.

The Input Level doesn't affect the guitar signal in the chain.

 

[chris]

The Ernie Ball Music Man Majesty line has a preamp circuit, that can in fact be turned down. One of the best parts about the guitar is being able to boost though. So, it’s a bummer to not be able to use it.

You can use it. I use it. It’s up to a 20dB boost - are you setting the input level for when the boost is on?

 

[Don Watters]

You can use it. I use it. It’s up to a 20dB boost - are you setting the input level for when the boost is on?

Yes. This is exactly how I set it. I’m only using about 15db boost. So, when I plug-in, I make sure that when I chugg/palm mute, I’m just barely seeing red lights. That’s 3% for me. So, then I plug in my Ibanez, and it sounds less robust on the same input setting, so I turn up the input setting, to get a similar sound. I know they won’t “sound” the same, but I’d at least like like to get similar levels. You’re saying, you don’t change your input settings if you’re using a preamp circuit?

 

[chris]

I set my majesty for 15% or so. If I increase the boost, I know it’s a boost. It will clip the input of an amp the same way - we don’t set anything special for a real amp.

That may be technically wrong, but I do that on all my FAS products. Set it for the normal guitar, not the sometimes boost.

 

[Don Watters]

Ok. I thought that we had the level input setting, so that we didn't clip the A/D converter. The manual is pretty clear about staying away from clipping. My amp doesn't have an A/D converter, so I don't have to worry about that. I've only just recently started using Axe FX, so maybe I don't know what issues I'm foregoing by setting the input levels for each guitar, but on anything else I've used that has A/D converters, I've always been careful about not clipping. I was hoping that there was a solve for this. Thanks for the recommendations.

 

[chris]

To me, it makes sense to set the input level for my normal guitar output. Again maybe that’s wrong, but it works well for me. I don’t expect any product to suddenly be ready for a 15-20dB boost, especially one designed to specifically overdrive the input to create distortion.

Definitely experiment and see what works best for you.

 

[Zedhed]

For the Active pups maybe try using a line level input if one is free (3 or 4)?

The pre-amp is prolly outputting line level signal.

 

[Bodde]

Seems more people are wanting this option. It would be very handy if you use more than one guitar on stage. I made a topic on a it a month ago for the Axe fx II. Some good info there:
https://forum.fractalaudio.com/threads/setting-different-input-levels-for-multiple-guitars.142814/

 

[chris]

For the Active pups maybe try using a line level input if one is free (3 or 4)?

The pre-amp is prolly outputting line level signal.

I don’t think it is. He is trying to adjust the input for a 15 dB boost which is additional to a pretty hot normal guitar signal. This boost was designed to hit the input of a guitar amp to provide what a drive pedal might for more sustain.

 

[Don Watters]

Seems more people are wanting this option. It would be very handy if you use more than one guitar on stage. I made a topic on a it a month ago for the Axe fx II. Some good info there:

This is what was thinking was the solution to the issue. But, based on the feedback, maybe i’m Overthinking it. Although Chris is right, I just want t use my guitar, with the boost, and have to worry about clipping.

 

[wolfdogg]

Yes. This is exactly how I set it. I’m only using about 15db boost. So, when I plug-in, I make sure that when I chugg/palm mute, I’m just barely seeing red lights. That’s 3% for me. So, then I plug in my Ibanez, and it sounds less robust on the same input setting, so I turn up the input setting, to get a similar sound. I know they won’t “sound” the same, but I’d at least like like to get similar levels. You’re saying, you don’t change your input settings if you’re using a preamp circuit?

When I bought my JP15 a couple years ago (I believe it has the same pickups as the Majesty), I thought I'd love that boost but rarely ever use it now. Seems like it's only good at room volume for practicing. It's certainly not been of any use to me when playing live (though maybe it's just the genre I play). I jumped back into the FX loop boost after the first gig. But.. love the guitar in every other way.

That said, I don't have any problem with the EB/Axe FX input (my Axe is set to 20% and rarely hitting the red) but again, I don't use the boost. I tried it the first day and realized that despite the red meter going off and adjusting for the boost (which I did try on day 1), adding a new scene and boosting it that way sounded far superior anyway.

I never thought I'd sell my JP15 (and I may not) but after getting this Axe 3, I now realize that two of the items I bought for... the piezo (which I use live and often) and the boost (which I quit using some time ago) are 2 features that will probably never get used any more.

I'd still have to find an amazing replacement though because the Ernie Ball is the fastest fret-board I've ever played. Absolutely love the way the EB's play. Cheers!

 

[Bodde]

This is what was thinking was the solution to the issue. But, based on the feedback, maybe i’m Overthinking it. Although Chris is right, I just want t use my guitar, with the boost, and have to worry about clipping.

As you can read in the other topic. The only solution now is to set the global input instrument setting so that your loudest guitar does not clip. And then do rest in the blocks per preset.

I wish Fractal would come with an option so that you can set at least two global instrument input settings in the I/O.

 

[Ugly Bunny]

I think the big thing here is that no one really seems to understand what setting the input level actually does or what actual effect it has on the tone. I know it's been explained a million times, but for those of us that have grown up with digital gear, it's inescapable that if you see lots of red, you freak out and reduce "gain," or, if you see NO red, you instinctively turn it up until it's just tickling the red.

This setting remains a bit of a mystery. Because, yeah, shouldn't we be able to put guitar pedals before the Axe? Well, what about pedals intended as a boost (or knobs on EBMM guitars that act as a boost)?

It's all a little confusing. Maybe the part in the manual can be revised and specific case examples could be given to explain how to treat these various scenarios. Or, of course, we simply adjust it every time we plug a different guitar in. Frankly, I adjusted mine for my PRS Silver Sky (single coils) and just leave it for my humbucker guitars. Sure, I see a lot of red, but it doesn't seem to really affect the tone in any noticeable way so I let it ride.

 

[yeky83]

Ok. I thought that we had the level input setting, so that we didn't clip the A/D converter. The manual is pretty clear about staying away from clipping. My amp doesn't have an A/D converter, so I don't have to worry about that. I've only just recently started using Axe FX, so maybe I don't know what issues I'm foregoing by setting the input levels for each guitar, but on anything else I've used that has A/D converters, I've always been careful about not clipping. I was hoping that there was a solve for this. Thanks for the recommendations.

Yup, you have it right. You don't want to clip the A/D converter, you should set the input level with whatever the loudest signal would be, in this case with the boost on.

Here's what I'd personally do. I'd set the input level to 5%, see if the red LED tickling is acceptable with the boost on. If it's not, I'd lower the pickup height a little bit away from the strings so the output from the guitar isn't as hot, make it work at 5%. And because it's set to 5%, it then won't affect the tone as much when you use with other lower output guitars.

To me, it makes sense to set the input level for my normal guitar output. Again maybe that’s wrong, but it works well for me. I don’t expect any product to suddenly be ready for a 15-20dB boost, especially one designed to specifically overdrive the input to create distortion.

Definitely experiment and see what works best for you.

A/D clipping isn't desired, this doesn't really make sense to me.
The Axe-Fx has a lot of headroom in its A/D, should be fine if you set the input to expect a 20 dB boost.

I think the big thing here is that no one really seems to understand what setting the input level actually does or what actual effect it has on the tone. I know it's been explained a million times, but for those of us that have grown up with digital gear, it's inescapable that if you see lots of red, you freak out and reduce "gain," or, if you see NO red, you instinctively turn it up until it's just tickling the red.

It optimizes the SNR of ADC: http://wiki.fractalaudio.com/axefx2...d_setting_levels#Setting_the_main_input_level

This setting remains a bit of a mystery. Because, yeah, shouldn't we be able to put guitar pedals before the Axe? Well, what about pedals intended as a boost (or knobs on EBMM guitars that act as a boost)?

You can put guitar pedals and pedals intended as a boost. The Axe-Fx A/D has a ton of headroom to allow for this. You just need to set it up beforehand.

It's all a little confusing. Maybe the part in the manual can be revised and specific case examples could be given to explain how to treat these various scenarios. Or, of course, we simply adjust it every time we plug a different guitar in. Frankly, I adjusted mine for my PRS Silver Sky (single coils) and just leave it for my humbucker guitars. Sure, I see a lot of red, but it doesn't seem to really affect the tone in any noticeable way so I let it ride.

If it's confusing, just set it to whatever loudest source you have as @chris recommends.