Serious Wireless Woes

Fro

Experienced
Hey All,

I understand that I will not find the perfect wireless. I'm at the point now where I would prefer to stick with a cable whenever possible. The problem is that we run our own sound, so I need to be wireless, at minimum for the sound check process, so that I can run out front with an iPad and get all of the levels set. It's also nice to be able to run out from time to time to check as the night goes on.

What I've tried so far is an old Shure LX, the newer SLX, QLX and GLX, plus the Line 6 G50 and G90. The line 6 has been the best as far as sound quality goes, but I run into issues competing with wifi in heavy traffic areas. I have also experienced drop outs with the G90, which I am in constant troubleshooting mode with. I currently have a support ticket open with Line 6.

Oddly enough, the old Shure LX was decent, but it's just one channel, TV9, and I can't rely on that in every area. I've been disappointed with the sound quality of the other Shure units. the SLX was the worst. I'm still testing out the others. I used the QLX this last weekend, and I was fighting it at both shows. It does make the sound bright and harsh. That's one area where the Line 6 wins with the cable simulator built in. The bigger problem though is that it totally crushes my sustain. I have been getting this glorious controlled feedback with my patches. I can bend just about any note and find just the right frequency to just feedback for days. As soon as I use one of the Shure wireless units, it feels like there is some kind of gate always on, and the notes just die. I had such a horrible playing experience, it was very frustrating.

I have yet to try a Sennheiser. That's next on my list. But after already spending a few thousand on trying out wireless units, I'm just very hesitant. I may just run any unit for the first 2 songs, and then switch to a cable. I'm also considering trying one of the Line 6 antennas, like the P360, and setting them up on either side of the stage, maybe clip them onto the front light trees. Kind of a pain in the ass to set up. We have minimal real estate on stage, so it's not really possible to separate the wireless unit from the other equipment, so I'm sure that adds to some of the reception issues, although the Line 6 is the only unit that seems to be affected by this. If I could only combine the reception of the Shure with the sound quality of the Line 6.

Any suggestions? Money isn'y an issue. With that said, I'm also not ready to spend $2000 on something that won't sound or perform any better. I know I'm probably being too picky. But trust me, I have really bad ears. I can usually be pretty forgiving. But the problems I'm having are causing me to play differently, and that is just really killing my groove.

Thanks for any input.
 
Maybe M@ can chime in, as he has a ton of experience with professionals.
 
yes, I have absolutely the same problem with my G90. Signal drops during the show, not so often, nut a can't play with such risk. Will go to Sennheiser ew 572 G3. But have you tried P360 antennas? Are they working good and solve the signal drop troubles?
 
yes, I have absolutely the same problem with my G90. Signal drops during the show, not so often, nut a can't play with such risk. Will go to Sennheiser ew 572 G3. But have you tried P360 antennas? Are they working good and solve the signal drop troubles?

I haven't tried the P360's yet. It's next on my list of things to try unless another brand/model of wireless is recomended. I've never tried external antenna's, so I'm very curious if it's really only a large venue solution, or if it would help with spreading things out in smaller congested areas.

I would be curious to see if M@ would have any suggestions as well. I've been googling trying to find which units are mentioned in various rig rundown's. I've seen the Shure ULX mentioned. It looked like the QLX was similar enough, but geared more toward medium venues, which is why I tried it. I just re-watche the Steve Stevens rig rundown from 2013, and he was using an AKG DSR700. I've seen a few others use the Line 6, like Mike Campbell. I'd love to know how reliable it was for him, and if he still uses it.

The wireless to me is the kind of gear that when i find the right one, I'll use and abuse it for 10+ years, which is why I'm fine with the extra cost for the right unit.
 
I had my first set of dropouts on my G90 in two years this weekend. Looking further into it, I was clashing with the bass player's G55 and the two singers wireless mics (also Line6). Looking on the Line 6 site, we all need to be on "R2" as otherwise they will clash with each other. I know I'm on R1, as I still need to update mine and I'm fairly sure they're running on R2. Going to update and then try it at the next practice, see if it makes any difference.


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I had my first set of dropouts on my G90 in two years this weekend. Looking further into it, I was clashing with the bass player's G55 and the two singers wireless mics (also Line6). Looking on the Line 6 site, we all need to be on "R2" as otherwise they will clash with each other. I know I'm on R1, as I still need to update mine and I'm fairly sure they're running on R2. Going to update and then try it at the next practice, see if it makes any difference.
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in my case I'm the only one using Line6 in my band. Moreover - during the soundcheck no dropouts, but at very first notes of the show - guitar disappears. Usually I can see future troubles - red indicators turns higher than 4 pieces high. it means what I already have too much interferences on the venue. And than the crowd inside - I have no sound.
 
Hmm, i have a crapload of wireless on stage, using an old X2 rack, has been fine. I would suggest going to the sennheiser and scan for free frequencies at each gig, it has like 1600 or something stupid. Thats where pro features come into play.
 
I've had the Line6 G50 for several years. It was basically a trouble free unit running it and our Sennheiser IEM's in our studio that has a Netgear router for internet.

Then I added the X32 mixer (using a D-Link Router) and a Shure wireless mic set up. Still no troubles for a couple of weeks and then the caca hit the fan. Constant dropouts. So it most definitely is interfering with the D-Link or the Shure. In reading similar setups I am constantly reading to set the Line6 on 'low power'.

Here is a link for some other ideas with people experiencing similar issues.
 
Thankfully, I haven't had an issue with my G90. My Bass player is using a G50. Just throwing ideas out here...have you checked your routing of power cables and instrument cables in your rack? Have you tried different positions with your antennas? Good luck on solving your issue!
As an aside, I spent 2 hours driving myself crazy seeing how exact I could match my wired cable in the front of the axe to running the G90 into front panel and rear panel on the axe as well as doing both with the various cable length modeling...such a slipper slope that probably doesn't matter live :)
 
Thankfully, I haven't had an issue with my G90. My Bass player is using a G50. Just throwing ideas out here...have you checked your routing of power cables and instrument cables in your rack? Have you tried different positions with your antennas? Good luck on solving your issue!
As an aside, I spent 2 hours driving myself crazy seeing how exact I could match my wired cable in the front of the axe to running the G90 into front panel and rear panel on the axe as well as doing both with the various cable length modeling...such a slipper slope that probably doesn't matter live :)

The tone of the G90 is OK for me, even though I know it isn't perfect. It's just the reception I'm fighting. And oddly enough, the Shure units mounted in the same rack the same way don't cause me grief with reception, but the tone is worse. I could even live with it if that is where it ended. I would just put an EQ at the front of my chain to compensate. But it's the fact that it totally chokes the sustain of my signal that makes it unusable. I hit a note, and it just disappears. The Line 6 doesn't do that at all. I feel like I'm missing some obvious step in gain structure.
 
I've had the Line6 G50 for several years. It was basically a trouble free unit running it and our Sennheiser IEM's in our studio that has a Netgear router for internet.

Then I added the X32 mixer (using a D-Link Router) and a Shure wireless mic set up. Still no troubles for a couple of weeks and then the caca hit the fan. Constant dropouts. So it most definitely is interfering with the D-Link or the Shure. In reading similar setups I am constantly reading to set the Line6 on 'low power'.

Here is a link for some other ideas with people experiencing similar issues.
Is the DLink set to 5GHz or 2.4GHz? IIRC the Line6 stuff is 2.4GHz, but I haven't looked at their specs in a *long* time, so I could easily be wrong about that. Either way, try setting up your networking gear so it's on whichever band that Line6 doesn't use.
 
Line6 devices are having lots of trouble. I currently use 100% Line6 and have used several units (XD-V70's and 75's) over the years. I used to use a mixture of units but never had issues with the XD series so I switched completely over. Unfortunately the honeymoon is over and I think it has to do with a proliferation of service provider wifi, mobile hotspots, airports, and bluetooth. I can now get interference on my own among airport, bluetooth, and 1 XD-V75 due to surrounding devices that are out of my control. I never had a problem in multiple locations until about 6 months ago. Lo power and positioning helps but it's too risky for live and down right annoying when simply playing around. Hopefully they will release a better unit to replace the older XD/G series tech (maybe it's the G75 but I haven't tried it... and probably never will due to the form factor).
 
I've had no issues with my G55. The sound is great and yet to experience dropouts. However, I've yet to experience gigs that have congested scenarios such as yours.

Have you had any experience with the Lectrosonics is-400?
 
Have you had any experience with the Lectrosonics is-400?

I was wondering if anyone would chime in with hands on experience with this one. Other than Shure, Lectrosonics and Sennheiser were the only 2 mentioned with the internet searches I've done looking for non-wifi wireless. The Sennheiser seems to have a lot of endorsers. I can't find a lot about the Lectrosonics, other than they have a good track record in the professional film and video market.
 
Is the DLink set to 5GHz or 2.4GHz?

The old D-Link is only 2.4GHz. I would try a 5GHz but I'm pretty sure my early iPad won't do 5GHz. Line 6 and about everything else wireless is 2.4GHz so it's a crowded RF. Unfortunately Line6 frequencies are proprietary and the channel number your on doesn't mean much. Except that it's a different channel than the next one...lol. I'm gonna' try low power next.
 
I had my first set of dropouts on my G90 in two years this weekend. Looking further into it, I was clashing with the bass player's G55 and the two singers wireless mics (also Line6). Looking on the Line 6 site, we all need to be on "R2" as otherwise they will clash with each other. I know I'm on R1, as I still need to update mine and I'm fairly sure they're running on R2. Going to update and then try it at the next practice, see if it makes any difference.


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It is absolutely essential that all Line6 wireless is in the same RF mode. Either all in RF1 or all in RF2. If this is not the case trouble is almost guaranteed. I would also strongly recommend the P180 antennas pointing at the area where you will be performing with the G90.

With all the wifi these days it also a good idea to spend some time at every location to find the best channel and switch wifi routers to 5gHz, if possible.

Full disclosure: I work for Line6 :)
 
I run a GLXD4 and have no real issues to report. I also have the floor receiver of that that where I *do* have issues with range and dropouts in high traffic (ie. lots of wifi) but it's not happened at a show with the rack setup.
 
I run a GLXD4 and have no real issues to report. I also have the floor receiver of that that where I *do* have issues with range and dropouts in high traffic (ie. lots of wifi) but it's not happened at a show with the rack setup.

Aside from the reception discussion, have you noticed a difference in the sustain of single notes with the GLXD? I need to give the GLXD another shot. I'll be doing some testing tonight. But the QLX and SLX both gave me single note sustain issues. It was very difficult to solo while using the wireless unit. I was constantly re-picking notes as the kept cutting off, something that wasn't happening with the Line 6. The reception was good with the GLX.
 
You need the Shure ULXD4.

You're not going to like this, maybe (though you did say that money isn't an object), but if you're in a high-traffic area, you're going to need to shell out for the big guns. With wireless systems, you absolutely get exactly what you pay for.

Several years ago, I wanted to try wireless. I wanted to do it cheap/keep the costs down. I bought a mid-level Line 6 wireless. It was okay, but not great. And when it comes to signal path, okay just doesn't cut it.

I finally bit the bullet and got the ULXD4 last year. It is awesome in every way. If money really isn't an object, this is a no-brainer.
 
You need the Shure ULXD4.

You're not going to like this, maybe (though you did say that money isn't an object), but if you're in a high-traffic area, you're going to need to shell out for the big guns. With wireless systems, you absolutely get exactly what you pay for.

Several years ago, I wanted to try wireless. I wanted to do it cheap/keep the costs down. I bought a mid-level Line 6 wireless. It was okay, but not great. And when it comes to signal path, okay just doesn't cut it.

I finally bit the bullet and got the ULXD4 last year. It is awesome in every way. If money really isn't an object, this is a no-brainer.

I was going to get the ULXD4. When I did the research, it seemed like on paper that the main difference between the ULXD and the QLXD was that the ULXD offered the ability to manage multiple devices, and maybe had more frequencies to choose from. I was under the impression that the sound quality would be identical. Tonight will be my extensive testing night just to make sure what I'm hearing is true and not just my ears having a crappy day, which has happened. I had put the QLXD in the rack without any real testing, other than making sure it worked. The sustain issues at the gig just really caught me off guard. It sounded a lot like the SLX in that regards, which I was under the impression would not be the case. I won't blink an eye at getting the ULX if I knew that it sounded better than the QLXD at this point. I appreciate your endorsement. That helps.
 
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