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Serious CPU Bottleneck, Spillover (again)

JazzMac251

Inspired
Anyone else running into some serious CPU bottleneck issues? I have one preset that has Wah, Drive, Vol, Trem, Delay, and Rev (Hi-fi) and that's 83% right there. That leaves two empty blocks. Forget trying to throw in another drive, 2nd delay block, or 2nd reverb block. The unit will start chugging like a train (if you can even add those blocks at all). Not only is this a drag because it's forcing empty spaces on my board, but this problem is magnified exponentially when trying to create useful FX spillover.

Okay, we still have to use Fractal's tried-and-true, cobbled-together, "sorta gets the job done, usually", method for FX spillover, i.e. daisy-chaining spillover blocks between presets. Fine. But hold on a second. I'm already running into CPU bottlenecks with just a single delay and reverb block. That's the very reason I'm having to spread my board over multiple presets in the first place. Forget having to add the other two! Not to mention that you're already going to have to use up half your pedalboard just to get spillover! I guess I'll have to either give up AT LEAST half my pedalboard or just not have spillover at all. The latter is not really an option.

Also, no global blocks. Damn.

This is a pretty big disappointment. Why is the processing power of this unit so hampered? Why does Fractal not take spillover seriously AT ALL? How is this really acceptable? The effects in this thing are seriously the best in the biz, but the CPU bottleneck and the continued lack of spillover are about to push this long-time Fractal supporter right out the door. I just don't know if I can justify spending $1400 on something with this many limitations.

I mean, SERIOUSLY, half the pedalboard gone just to have spillover!??? COME. ON.
 

killerburst

Member
Yes I have patches that will disable my Reverb block all of a sudden. Same patches will have in useable switching lags, I.e. 1-2 second delays in turning on/off blocks, having to hold 4-5 seconds to change from X to Y, etc. Definitely underpowered for the intended use.
 

N.Phaneuf

Inspired
I would ditch the hi res verbs. Guitars are not hi res. fractal could have saved themselves some headaches by making that block less CPU intensive but instead they give YOU the option. I use two tape delay blocks two drive comp and verb trem and PEQ in my main patch. All I have to do is turn down the verb resolution and density.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 

JazzMac251

Inspired
Yeah, this thing is not for me.

Seriously hobbled processor. Spillover is a joke (give up half your blocks). Had my drive pedals plugged into it, didn't like the way that was sounding so it spent a lot of the night in true bypass mode. The output drops when it's engaged. The layout screen is a drag (where's the grid?). I don't like how the buttons function. I don't like the way scenes or presets work, and on and on. Most importantly, if you have a PT2 it takes up FAR too much real estate, it's very nearly too tall to fit in a case, and, for something that sits on a pedalboard, it's VERY heavy.

Can't believe I waited over a year for this thing. For $1400 I expected more. Going back to regular pedals. Look for it for sale in all the usual places.
 

JazzMac251

Inspired
Some things just aren't for everyone's requirements.
Agreed. The processor limitations and the way spillover works really burn me up though. A lot of people are going to be running into those problems. People have been criticizing spillover on the axefx from the very beginning. I don't know when the company is going to get it through their thick collective skulls that they need to address the issue.

Personally, I don't give a rat's ass how impossible they think it is. Figure it out. Slap another dsp in there. I'll buy it. Professionals will buy it. I'm keeping my axefx2 because at least it has the horsepower and flexibility to accomplish what I need accomplished in whatever roundabout way Fractal deems absolutely necessary.

For my amp rig I've already purchased two Strymon products to replace the FX8. They're smaller, lighter, and their processors are adequately matched to the workload expected from them, and, oh yeah, they both have spillover!
 

yek

Moderator
Moderator
Yeah, this thing is not for me.
Yes, that seems to be the case.

Seriously hobbled processor.
It's a fast-running SHARC. Best processor, after the TigerSHARC.

Spillover is a joke (give up half your blocks)
FWIW, the Helix isn't even offering spillover.
Spillover is a very processor-heavy task, regardless of the implementation method.
Many people do have a delay block in every preset. Or use our amp's reverb or a separate reverb unit.

Had my drive pedals plugged into it, didn't like the way that was sounding
User error. Plugging drive pedals into the FX8 is the same as plugging them into your amp.

spent a lot of the night in true bypass mode. The output drops when it's engaged
This means you didn't set levels right (too high) in I/O or your blocks.

The layout screen is a drag (where's the grid?)
Where do the specs state that there should be a grid?

I don't like how the buttons function
Improved in 2.0 public beta.

I don't like the way scenes or presets work
Uh, okay...

Most importantly, if you have a PT2 it takes up FAR too much real estate
THIS is most important?? Was "fits beautifully on a PT2" a sales statement?
Get a larger pedalboard?
 

yek

Moderator
Moderator
and, oh yeah, they both have spillover!
Spillover in a dedicated standalone effects unit is very different from implementing spillover in multi-effects/preamp processor.

You want easy spillover? Use scenes.
 

JazzMac251

Inspired
It's a fast-running SHARC. Best processor, after the TigerSHARC.
Obviously not fast enough.


FWIW, the Helix isn't even offering spillover.
Spillover is a very processor-heavy task, regardless of the implementation method.
Many people do have a delay block in every preset. Or use our amp's reverb or a separate reverb unit.
This is a half-truth. From a "Product Management" user on the Helix FAQ page: Helix FAQ - Helix - Line 6 Community "Helix won't have preset spillover at launch. We have some cool ideas on how this might be implemented in the future, but we can't promise anything. The good news is that Helix's routing is incredibly flexible, so you can do all sorts of inter-preset switching that can emulate spillover."

Outside of that there are plenty of boxes that support spillover: Strymon Timeline and Big Sky, Line 6 DL4, I've heard even some of the BOSS and Digitech pedals do, but I don't have experience with those myself.

User error. Plugging drive pedals into the FX8 is the same as plugging them into your amp.
Actually, it's probably because the FX8 is not calibrating my expression pedals' ranges correctly. I have two BOSS FV-500's and the FX8 will not see "toe down" as anything above 93% on both of them.

This means you didn't set levels right (too high) in I/O or your blocks.
Level is flat on all blocks

Where do the specs state that there should be a grid?
Grid SHOULD be there because it's more flexible and easier to work with.

Improved in 2.0 public beta.
Yeah, not nearly enough, IMO.

THIS is most important?? Was "fits beautifully on a PT2" a sales statement?
Get a larger pedalboard?
Look here, friend, I play guitar for a living. Shlepping shit back and forth is a serious part of the experience. The fact that you say "get a bigger board" so flippantly tells me you're not very in touch with aspect of the job. "Getting a bigger board" is a tantamount to a decrease in one's quality-of-life. Tonight I just hauled 200lbs worth of gear several blocks to play this (ugh) wedding gig. In a few hours I'll be hauling about 125-150 lbs of gear to my church gig. After that, I'll be hauling the same 200 lbs worth of gear to a rehearsal in the city. The next day, I'll be hauling that same 200 lbs worth of gear to my studio. So, you can sneer all you want at my balking about weight and size, just realize that when you suggest I get a bigger board, the answer is going to be a RESOUNDING "N-O- NO!"

Now, why the PT2? Well, the PT2 is, by my personal experience, by far the most popular pedalboard out there. If I sit here and think about all the professional guitarists I know, a very solid plurality of them have PT2s (some have custom made boards, some have that Furman powered board, some have PT-Pros because they are insane). So, this being the case, it stands to reason that it MIGHT BE PRUDENT to see if your product fits in with common configurations on the most used pedalboards out there.

As the FX8 sits on my PT2 now, it sticks up so far on the top that it's no longer very protected by the padded bag. Also, to get it on a board with 2 expression pedals, the FX8 has to hang over the edge about a half inch as well as one of the pedals doing the same on the other side. Granted, these are the larger BOSS FV500 pedals, but I think the Fractal expression pedals are actually comparable in size if not wider. This is going to put holes in the bag for sure in addition to ensuring these parts - because they protrude - are taking the brunt of the force when the bag gets slammed around during transport. This is not good.
 

JazzMac251

Inspired
Spillover in a dedicated standalone effects unit is very different from implementing spillover in multi-effects/preamp processor.
If anyone can figure it out, it's Fractal. Or will Line 6 beat them to it? Hmm. Props for Line6 for even working on it.

You want easy spillover? Use scenes.
Incorrect.

As you know, if you change the settings of the delay unit, your spillover will change as if you reached down and suddenly turned the knobs on your delay pedal. I once played a nice, soft ballad with a ton of ambient-style tape delay feedback creating this gorgeous saturated effect that held out for several seconds with each note. As I played the last note, it hung in the air perfectly. I turned the page to the next tune, triggered the corresponding patch change in the AxeFX and...

...WREEEEEEEE WROOOOOOOOHHHH WREEEEEEE WROOOOOOOOOOOOHHHH WRERRRRRRRR WROOOOOOOOOOO wwwwwreeee wroooooohhh.......

#FractalSpillover #Classy
 

GM Arts

Power User
Just in case newcomers here form the impression that you can only use about 3 effects a t a time ...

Not true. All of my patches have all of these effects available:
> Wah
> Phase
> Tremolo
> Chorus
> Rotary
> Flange
> Delay
> Reverb
> Boost (filter)
> 1 or 2 amp blocks
> Cab block
> Volume (pedal)
> also 2 x Mixer and send/return & FX loop
> 4 x graphic EQ

Then depending on the patch, I add:
> Pitch effects
> Compressor
> Drive
> Extra delay FX
> etc

To the OP: you're saying it's not suitable for you. Why bitch about it? Sell it, move on, have fun.
 

JazzMac251

Inspired
Just in case newcomers here form the impression that you can only use about 3 effects a t a time ...

Not true. All of my patches have all of these effects available:
> Wah
> Phase
> Tremolo
> Chorus
> Rotary
> Flange
> Delay
> Reverb
> Boost (filter)
> 1 or 2 amp blocks
> Cab block
> Volume (pedal)
> also 2 x Mixer and send/return & FX loop
> 4 x graphic EQ

Then depending on the patch, I add:
> Pitch effects
> Compressor
> Drive
> Extra delay FX
> etc

To the OP: you're saying it's not suitable for you. Why bitch about it? Sell it, move on, have fun.
*Facepalm*

Look at the category this thread was posted in, friend.
 

yek

Moderator
Moderator
As you know, if you change the settings of the delay unit, your spillover will change as if you reached down and suddenly turned the knobs on your delay pedal. I once played a nice, soft ballad with a ton of ambient-style tape delay feedback creating this gorgeous saturated effect that held out for several seconds with each note. As I played the last note, it hung in the air perfectly. I turned the page to the next tune, triggered the corresponding patch change in the AxeFX and...

...WREEEEEEEE WROOOOOOOOHHHH WREEEEEEE WROOOOOOOOOOOOHHHH WRERRRRRRRR WROOOOOOOOOOO wwwwwreeee wroooooohhh.......
You're talking about a patch/preset. I was referring to scenes.

Experience: I've been on stages since I was 13. I'm now 51 and still play out.

Regarding pedalboard size: the FX8 is a fixed unit, and not that large for an unit that packs such a lot of stuff. If you want to add stuff to that and fit it all on a pedalboard (extra weight), then that's your choice. If the PT2 isn't large enough, well, yes, then you need a larger pedalboard or strike through some stuff. That's what I meant. It's like loading too much food on your plate, and when some of it drops of, you blame the food...
For me the FX8 and a pedal suffices. I don't even need a pedalboard for that. Guthrie Govan isn't either. I believe he's playing for a living.

Pedals: sorry to see you're having problems. I have 3 different pedals here and they all work correctly. Calibration was tested thoroughly during beta.

Levels: not only the LEVEL parameter counts. Could be MIX, or BYPASS MODE, or INPUT GAIN.

"Grid SHOULD be there" ... you probably shouldn't have bought it then. But as with all FAS products, the FX8 will keep evolving.

"Not nearly enough": can you elaborate? What's wrong with the buttons?

Okay, enough is enough. Let's not get into a fight. If you need assistance, just ask instead of just venting your frustration. Certain things can be solved. Certain things are just what they are. And certain things may be bugs or broken, and can get fixed. IMHO the FX8 is an amazing device, especially for the experienced player, and very solid.
 

JazzMac251

Inspired
You're talking about a patch/preset. I was referring to scenes.
I'm frankly not sure how scenes can help. I assume they work the same in the FX8 as they do in the AxeFX. I'm in the AxeFX editor now and you cannot have scene specific changes in delay settings. That is to say, change a delay parameter in one scene and you've changed it in all of them. Unless I'm missing something, this is not useful in terms of spillover. Scenes just allow multiple versions of whole preset block bypass configurations. Useful spillover is much more than that. That can already be achieved from selecting the proper block bypass mode (often Mute FX In gets the job done). It's where delay blocks change settings from one preset to the next that things really start to fall apart. Honestly, even changing X/Y states causes some nasty problems. It's really something that should be addressed.

I appreciate that you're trying to help. it's just frustrating dealing with the same issues over and over again, then seeing them somewhat magnified in this new product that I've been anticipating for over a year. Clearly this product was not designed for someone line me in mind. I'll be moving to another solution for my amp rig. Thanks for the suggestions.
 
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yek

Moderator
Moderator
That's correct. Apart from X/Y the settings stay the same in each scene in a preset. So for complex stuff, scenes won't do it.

One way to minimize "spillover bursts" when switching presets and scenes (X/Y), is to keep the LEVEL value in the delays consistent, MIX as well (as much as posssible) and use INPUT GAIN to dial in the desired amount of delay.
 

bstoner

Inspired
I would have to agree CPU limit is very annoying. They should at least make each reverb default to a lower setting so you can add it to your preset without the CPU error. If you want to then make it Hi-Rez from there you have that option.
 

yek

Moderator
Moderator
I would have to agree CPU limit is very annoying. They should at least make each reverb default to a lower setting so you can add it to your preset without the CPU error. If you want to then make it Hi-Rez from there you have that option.
When I add Reverb to a preset on the FX8, it defaults to Normal Res.
Also, when I reset a Reverb block to its default settings (press Enter twice), it's set to Normal Res.

With Reverb at Normal, I have lots of CPU to play with:

77% with VOL - FLG - PHR - DLY - DRV - REV - ROT - TRM.

Or 64% with that same chain with with Reverb set to Spring Reverb.
 

killerburst

Member
I'm frankly not sure how scenes can help. I assume they work the same in the FX8 as they do in the AxeFX. I'm in the AxeFX editor now and you cannot have scene specific changes in delay settings. That is to say, change a delay parameter in one scene and you've changed it in all of them. Unless I'm missing something, this is not useful in terms of spillover. Scenes just allow multiple versions of whole preset block bypass configurations. Useful spillover is much more than that. That can already be achieved from selecting the proper block bypass mode (often Mute FX In gets the job done). It's where delay blocks change settings from one preset to the next that things really start to fall apart. Honestly, even changing X/Y states causes some nasty problems. It's really something that should be addressed.
Have you tried Scene Controllers?
 

bstoner

Inspired
When I add Reverb to a preset on the FX8, it defaults to Normal Res.
Also, when I reset a Reverb block to its default settings (press Enter twice), it's set to Normal Res.

With Reverb at Normal, I have lots of CPU to play with:

77% with VOL - FLG - PHR - DLY - DRV - REV - ROT - TRM.

Or 64% with that same chain with with Reverb set to Spring Reverb.
Hi Yek,

The error usually happens when trying to change the type of reverb. Say in the patch you have listed above change to each type of different reverb will usually cause the cpu error for me. Even with the reverb reset to its default settings.

b
 
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