Serial vs Parallel Delay settings

First of all I appreciate all the input and responses. Both generic presets Serial and Parallel presets are attached. Maybe I'm missing something in the translation. The serial has a lot more delay. I need to convert about 40 presets which is why I'm asking. Thanks
 

Attachments

  • BMan Serial.syx
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  • BMan Bypass Parallel.syx
    12.6 KB · Views: 4
Set the parallel delay to 100% wet and 0 dB level. To get the exact input gain number you solve the proportion.

A/B = X/Y
A = series wet level %
B = series dry level %
X = parallel wet level %
Y = parallel dry level %

For 15% mix you'd have:
A = 15% wet
B = 85% dry (wet + dry = 100% in normal mix)
X = input gain setting we're looking for
Y = 100% (parallel shunt = full dry signal)
That gives the proportion 15/85 = X/100
Cross multiply to get 1500 = 85X
X = 1500/85 = 17.6470588235
Rounds to the 17.65% suggested above.
 
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Know the function of every button and then just use your ears.." to much math will kill you..if don't make up your mind "
 
If you have the delay at 100% and in parallel adjusting the level parameter in the delay block won't effect your overall volume much. It will mostly just change the amount of delay.
So, turn up the level control in the delay block until the delay sounds about right. I usually don't use input gain to control the parallel delays mix, I just use the output level.
 
Bakerman said:
This math is wrong due to the delay's mix law. 15% mix = 100% dry, 30% wet.

To get same level from parallel 100% mix delay use input gain = 30%.
Click to expand...
Okay, now I'm confused. Maybe I don't fully grok the definition of "mix," but wouldn't 100% dry/30% wet equal 30/130=23%?
 
Rex said:
Okay, now I'm confused. Maybe I don't fully grok the definition of "mix," but wouldn't 100% dry/30% wet equal 30/130=23%?
Click to expand...

You could say that, but the 23% isn't meaningful for anything you'd be adjusting.

30 is still 23% of 130 when your parallel 30% input gain delay has a shunt (100% dry level) in parallel.
 
My math was based on the assumption that the delay mix parameter setting reflected the actual wet to dry mix ratio. @Bakerman, is correct. Now that I'm back at my Axe II, I can see that the delay mix parameter does not show the actual mix ratio, but rather it has a linear transition to and from the 50% mix point with the actual wet level percentage being double that of the mix setting.

So, yes, for any series delay mix setting at or below 50%, you set a parallel delay block's input gain to double that value. i.e. 15% series mix = 30% parallel input gain.

The proportion method posted earlier is correct for other blocks like reverb though.
 
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mr_fender said:
My math was based on the assumption that the delay mix parameter setting still reflects the actual wet to dry mix ratio.
Click to expand...
Yeah, I revisited the manual after this exchange of ideas. With the mix law for the other blocks, a 50% mix puts wet and dry at equal levels, as opposed to wet being 50% of the dry level. According to the manual, the Delay mix law raises the wet signal all the way to 100% by the time it reaches 50% mix, so the wet signal increases faster than you'd otherwise expect it to.
 
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mr_fender said:
My math was based on the assumption that the delay mix parameter setting reflected the actual wet to dry mix ratio. @Bakerman, is correct. Now that I'm back at my Axe II, I can see that the delay mix parameter does not show the actual mix ratio, but rather it has a linear transition to and from the 50% mix point with the actual wet level percentage being double that of the mix setting.

So, yes, for any series delay mix setting at or below 50%, you set a parallel delay block's input gain to double that value. i.e. 15% series mix = 30% parallel input gain.

The proportion method posted earlier is correct for other blocks like reverb though.
Click to expand...
Thank you and everyone else for all the help and responses.
 
mr_fender said:
The proportion method posted earlier is correct for other blocks like reverb though.
Click to expand...

Not reverb or looper. Those use a different (log 3 dB) mix law where that method won't be accurate either.

Wxv2g9R.png
 
Wolfenstein98k said:
Why's the delay mix law unique?
Click to expand...
Because it sounds more natural that way.

With a 50% mix in a Delay block, using the "normal" mix law would make the block's output sound quieter. The same thing in a Chorus block sounds just right.
 
Bakerman said:
Not reverb or looper. Those use a different (log 3 dB) mix law where that method won't be accurate either.

Wxv2g9R.png
Click to expand...

Nice work. How did you get those sweeps plotted like that? Saw UP LFO on the mix control with wet and dry hard panned to separate them?
 
mr_fender said:
Nice work. How did you get those sweeps plotted like that? Saw UP LFO on the mix control with wet and dry hard panned to separate them?
Click to expand...

Yes, saw up LFO on mix. I just recorded the top dry waveforms w/ effect input gain at 0% and flipped them to make the lower examples.
 
Thanks for posting this GREAT question, I just searched the forums for a long time trying to figure out my burning questions about going from a delay series to parallel (series mix 8% go to parallel mix 100%) AND using the parallel OUTPUT level adjust it to ????? to end up with a "similar" delay. However, I must admit I cannot answer my question still derr.... The light bulb hasn't gone on yet - grin... A simple rule like double it from 8% to 16% although output level is NOT in % anyway, but this is was what I was expecting.. derr.. No worries, I'm learning...
 
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