Seems like our guitars and amps cannot compete with the dynamic range of classical instruments and voices

Piing

Piing

Axe-Master
Try to play over this:



No matter how much you try to play with dynamics, either you will sound too soft at the fortissimo parts or too loud at the pianissimo parts

And that is the compressed YouTube. When listening in a high end equipment, the dynamic range is even higher
 
I dunno... Have you heard the Jeff Beck album Emotion and Commotion?

Of course, none of us are JB ;)
 
Piing said:
Try to play over this:



No matter how much you try to play with dynamics, either you will sound too soft at the fortissimo parts or too loud at the pianissimo parts

And that is the compressed YouTube. When listening in a high end equipment, the dynamic range is even higher
Click to expand...

?
 
I don't mean quiet and loud by twisting the volume knob, but expressive playing. Turning the volume down doesn't have the same effect as playing the strings softly, with more delicacy.

I think it is wrong to call the volume pedal "Expression Pedal" because it doesn't improve the expressiveness. That name comes from the era of the first electronic organs that didn't have "Expression" (velocity control) in their keys, so they called the volume pedal "expression pedal"
 
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that's a recording of a bunch of dudes in a huge performance space, of course you can't get to those dynamic extremes playing along with a recording, but if you had an amp set up next to the conductor, and your presets dialed in to match the ppp/fffffff levels of the composition, one electric guitar amp would have more dynamics than the whole orchestra combined...all the way from (off) to (louder than everybody else). Drums are the most dynamic instrument, only until you electrify a guitar, then it's electric guitar that is the most dynamic instrument.
 
I agree that a single guitar on its own cannot equal the maximum volume of multiple instruments playing at the same time. It’s physically impossible for one instrument to be as loud as multiple instruments without additional amplification or volume creation from multiple speakers.

It’s simply called an expression pedal because that’s what it’s called. I don’t think it implies that it gives more artistic or dynamic expression on its own. Expression pedals are used for many things, volume, Wah, effect mix, vibrato etc. any of these things added to a tone could be defined as adding more expression.

Turning the volume down on an electric guitar does change the tonality and expressive feel of the instrument though. It reduces gain and many artists use this for great effect.

I think a guitar can approach -infinity on a dynamic range scale, so I think it can match the pianissimo parts of this piece.

I’m not really understanding the impetus of this topic.
 
Well he's generally right. We lose a LOT of dynamic range via amp compression, distortion, saturation, fx, etc. The new preamp modeling seems to have added a couple bits of depth but we are in no way as dynamic as most acoustic instruments.

That being said, it's an electric guitar, not a cello, so you can't expect it to be the same-it's a different beast.

My gf is a violinist with the national Philharmonic orchestra and I get to hear them 3-5 times a week and work with them occasionally - he's right, we have nowhere near the level of dynamics of acoustic instruments, but we have our technology to work around that :) adapt and overcome!
 
chris said:
I’m not really understanding the impetus of this topic.
Click to expand...

About 15 years ago I started to arrange electric guitar parts for that Mozart piece. I recorded it on DAW but I abandoned the project. Not only for my lack of skills but because I was not satisfied with the small dynamic separation between the soft and strong parts. I could correct it with volume, but it was artificial.

Now I am recovering the project, and I find the same challenge with the dynamic range. Ergo tali fortis impetu :sunglasses:
 
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Oh so we’re talking specifically about electric guitar. that was not clear until this point.

Electric guitar output comes from pickups with a known dynamic range. Compared to an acoustic instrument, of course the range would be limited as it’s electric and limited by design.
 
chris said:
Oh so we’re talking specifically about electric guitar. that was not clear until this point.

Electric guitar output comes from pickups with a known dynamic range. Compared to an acoustic instrument, of course the range would be limited as it’s electric and limited by design.
Click to expand...

The dynamic range of the electric guitar is limited by the noise floor and the maximum volume the amp/speakers can deliver. Technically this means it could be even bigger than an acoustic instrument but your control of the dynamic range will most likely be not satisfactory.
 
Piing said:
No matter how much you try to play with dynamics, either you will sound too soft at the fortissimo parts or too loud at the pianissimo parts
Click to expand...
Same if you take just one violin or piano against an entire orchestra :)

As other said, a live band can have way more dynamics of any record, plus the arrangement makes a bigger emotional difference than the absolute dynamic range.
 
Apples and oranges if you ask me. Lets see a violin sustain indefinitely without its bow just by string vibrato and feedback alone. Different instruments for different kinds of music. The reason we play amplified is because acoustic string instruments cannot on their own power amplify a dance hall, let alone an arena. It needs lots of these instruments playing in unison and a concert hall with acoustic treatments for that. And a distorted amplifier creates its own sonically pleasing qualities. Each instrument is clearly optimized for its intended role and musical environment. And that's not to say that a well played electric guitar can showcase a lot of dynamic range, and that classical instruments can be amplified and distorted.

If you think your expensive boutique guitars are expensive you've never bought a high end classical instrument though. A luthier once told me he's friends with a man who builds and repairs high end double bass instruments for classical music. You need a mortgage to pay for one of those. Especially the vintage ones. And that if you want to play the double bass in classical music that's a commitment for life.
 
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