Secret weapon (replacement for FRFR)

jzucker

jzucker

Experienced
So, recently I bought an Epifani UL112 bass speaker cab. It's a full range bass cab with a 43Hz - 16kHz frequency response. I bought it along with a GK MB500 amplifier to use for bass.

On a whim, I plugged my Axefx into and it it's got a killer sound for guitar. I like it much better than some of the commercially made and big $$$ powered FRFR setups I've tried. I won't name them for fear of chest beating...

This setup is very powerful and very light. I just purchased a 2nd UL112 cab to use for bigger gigs and jams but I'm really happy with this setup.

I'm sure it'll get beaten down by the FRFR police but if you want a really versatile, lightweight and great sounding setup, check it out.
 
Thats interesting and something I have wondered about in the past but never got round to trying.

I wonder what type response curve it has? I suspect it might be a bit quirky and tuned more to lower registers but I am happy to be proven wrong.
(Not that it particularly matters if you get the sound/tone you want)
 
Sounds very interesting, FRFR prices do seemed to be well hyped, what is the wattage of the cabs?
 
cabs are rated at 300w. I do think the response curves are probably tuned towards bass but frankly, the big dollar FRFR cabs I have owned made specifically for modelers also seemed tuned for bass. I think the demographic of these setups tend towards the low-tuning djent and metal players whereas my tastes are more towards clean fender, dumble lead, matchless/vox/fender/marshall slightly overdriven tones. And my setup sounds great for that.
 
This doesn't surprise me, I was using both a pair of self powered QSC 1x15's and 2x15's, (not at the same time) & the sound was fantastic. Granted they were rated at 1,000w each so they had some power, they were nice & clean and punchy sounding with great low end & the 1x15's were very easy to manage. The 2x15's were a pain and not really worth the extra just for guitar. But I always liked the sound of a 15 over a 12.
 
Hi Jack,

So are you still running Cab IRs in your signal path, or did you turn that off so you're running more like many of us - out to "real" cab(s) and utilizing "non-FRFR" speakers?
 
∞Fractals said:
Hi Jack,

So are you still running Cab IRs in your signal path, or did you turn that off so you're running more like many of us - out to "real" cab(s) and utilizing "non-FRFR" speakers?
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Yes am still using cab IRs. These speakers are fairly neutral sounding and while they may not be perfectly flat, they are not like a guitar speaker. The drivers in them are reference speakers, not musical instrument speakers.
 
Doesn't surprise me either. One time a few years ago I plugged my GT8 into a bass amp (I think an Ampeg, don't really remember) at the studio where my band rehearsed and was blown away by how good it sounded. The low end wasn't overpowering at all, and it still had sweet mids and highs that were just creamy. I figure I can always dial out the bottom if there's too much, but if it isn't there in the first place you can't add it in later, no matter how you dial in your amp.

Like you, I tend towards low to mid gain. I do play some heavier stuff from time to time, but still not in the metal/djent world.

I assume that its loud enough for small gigs w/ your GK? My Matrix GT800 should provide plenty of power although if I really cranked it up I wonder if it might drive the cab too hard.
 
jzucker said:
cabs are rated at 300w. I do think the response curves are probably tuned towards bass but frankly, the big dollar FRFR cabs I have owned made specifically for modelers also seemed tuned for bass. I think the demographic of these setups tend towards the low-tuning djent and metal players whereas my tastes are more towards clean fender, dumble lead, matchless/vox/fender/marshall slightly overdriven tones. And my setup sounds great for that.
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I also like the cleaner sounds and I also use the shiver clean amp wirh the AC drive block to get a more R. Ford type tone. Do you get a more realistic sound using these cabs (a more amp in the room sound) or is it the typical FRFR sound? I have an FRFR cab and though I use it for gigs where I just need a quiet personal monitor, I found it sounded very digital when cranked up - it really did sound awful, so I stick with normal guitar cabs for louder gigs. Do you use yhe cabs for backline or monitors?
The biggest bummer is that they seem to be unavailable in the UK.
 
Funny, after this thread posted I was looking at one on the GC used site, but it's gone now. If someone on here bought it, please let us know what you think of it ;-)
 
if it's tuned towards djent or metal, it's not FRFR, by definition a FRFR speaker should be as neutral as possible.

it's probably just tuned in a way that pleases your specific ear, and if you're happy with it that's all that matters.
 
Nice find, Jack! There are likely many options out there for those willing to try them with an open mind. Glad you're digging it!
 
Lots and lots of higher end (2- and 3- way) bass cabs are very good for way more than bass. They're not super flat, but they don't have a boost in the lows like a lot of guitarists seem to expect. I'm not super familiar with the Epifanis (I've used them in the past when supplied as backline, but that's about it), but they're pretty sharp cabs. Very even response for bass guitar, so I can imagine they would sound wonderful with guitar.

Keep in mind, a lot of the "FRFR" speakers out there aren't FRFR. They might be somewhat full range (though most seem to have a substantial roll off below 80Hz or some thereabouts), and they might be within a few dB of flat, but getting real FRFR is expensive, heavy and complex.

For the wattage discussion... keep in mind that doubling your wattage only buys you about 3dB in volume. So going to an 800W amp likely isn't going to be very noticeable. Also, I doubt even when cranked those Matrix's and such are cranking 800W out for long enough times to heat the voicecoils to the point of failure. And unless you're playing an 8+ string guitar, you won't even be stressing them anywhere near xMax. Wattage is one of those numbers that sounds good on paper, but doesn't mean as much as people think. Kind of like horsepower (horsepower sells cars, torque wins races).

There's tons of other good cabs for bass that I'm sure would be fine on guitar. fEarful, AudioKinesis, Bergantino, the new Genzler, some of the Aguilar offerings would all be good starting points. Basically any of the 2- and 3- way designs could be considered.
 
Devil's advocate, and why this would not necessarily be an ideal, all-around solution for me:

1) No speaker mount
2) No tilt
3) (This corresponds to 1 and 2)- No way to change the response of the cab to accommodate different positions
4) Both the Matrix GM50 (in Xitone active cabs) and the CLR give additional ins and outs, with the CLR winning out big time in that regard

However, for just a straight-up gig cab, this does seem to be an excellent, and reasonably affordable (sub-$500) solution. They haven't been available new for quite a while, unfortunately, so scour the internet.
 
Bass cabs usually don't come in tilt design, because there are some complex design problems that we run into with that cab shape. Nothing that can't be overcome, but generally the way to overcome it adds size and weight. There are some out there.. Eden had one that was pretty good.
I'm not sure I follow the #3 point. A lot of the 2- and 3- way designs have the ability to pad and/or defeat the high driver (be it tweeter, compression or small driver). You'd use DSP or upstream systems to otherwise change the EQ.

The UL112 is just a cab, so it'd be more like comparing it to the passive offerings from CLR etc (which pretty much universally have one in, one out). There's a few active bass cabs in history, but they're hens teeth! :D I've thought about designing new ones, but they are just not popular at all, and it is difficult to design high power, low heat solutions in the form factor. A lot of bass players have either pre/power setups or heads, so having a powered cab doesn't offer a true benefit, yet. Perhaps if a modeling company steps up and gives bass players a targeted product, then active cabs can catch on a bit better.
 
Ah, now I get it. It's a passive cab. Err... should have read better.

Give me a nice, all-in-one solution any day. I did the separate amp/cab for a while.

Really happy with my Xitone active 1x12 and one active CLR. I've tried other active solutions, too, but they just don't cut it.
 
I used to have access to a Mark bass 210 combo, I should have tried it with the Axe. great bass amp light and plenty of bottom.
 
Chris@AxeFxTutorials said:
FRFR means Full Range AND Flat Response

most of the time people say FRFR they really just mean Full Range, meaning something close to 20hz - 20kHz.
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Yes. Plenty of speaker systems are technically "full range" in the sense they can reproduce that range of frequencies at some level. It's the other FR that differentiates the reference-type monitors.
 
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