• We would like to remind our members that this is a privately owned, run and supported forum. You are here at the invitation and discretion of the owners. As such, rules and standards of conduct will be applied that help keep this forum functioning as the owners desire. These include, but are not limited to, removing content and even access to the forum.

    Please give yourself a refresher on the forum rules you agreed to follow when you signed up.

Scene Controller Accuracy for Input Trim

6stringscott

Inspired
I have noticed this before but didn't really dig into it. Right now I see hear very distinctly that my sound with Input Trim statically set at 2.0 is *very* different than the sound with a scene controller set at 20% with all controller defaults (so a basic y=x linear function, no offsets or anything), and min=0.1 and max=10.

Is there something fundamental I am missing about scene controllers and how they work? The difference is WAY off with how I am trying it- like I need to go closer to 30% on the Scene 1 controller to get close to a sound with trim = 2.0, and it's still quieter and overall less cutting tone using the Scene controller... the tonal difference might just be a function of it being a little quieter- I can't quite tell. Then when I disable the Scene controller 30% and statically set trim = 3.0, it is dramatically different sound, more hair.

But bottom line, these are NOT equivalent settings as I would expect them to be.

I expect a minor rounding error because the controller min/max (y value in the equation) goes from 0.1 to 10.0 (tracking the trim values), while I am changing the scene 1 controller percentage (this is the x value) from 0 to 100. But this should be almost imperceptible.

Can others confirm this behavior? Or what am I missing?

Ax8 FW 7.02

See the pics for my setup. In this shot, the scene controller is at 30% which should be similar to Trim=3.0

Thanks in advance :)
 

Attachments

6stringscott

Inspired
Another data point... using 18% with the scene controller is way quieter, less rich tone, and less hairy, than using input trim statically set a 1.0. I basically can't use the scene controllers with this inconsistency, can't get a tone as good with scene controller at any value after dialing it with a static trim (assuming it is not my mistake).
 

Molekiller

Experienced
I'm pretty sure that the way the input control works is not linear. Default setting of 1.0 is with the controlat noon. Input trim of 0.5 if I remember right is with the controlaround 10 o'clock. I'm guessing the 2.0 setting you're shooting for is going to be around 2 o'clock. You might want to try a setting around 65-70% and see how that sounds. I think 20% is going to give you something less than 0.5.
 

chris

Legend!
hmm, isn't the knob position of 50% (visually) equivalent to 1.0? perhaps the % from the Scene Controller isn't a linear 0.1 to 10. what happens if you set the Scene Controller to 50%? does that equal 1.0? (remember that the values above the knobs when a controller is used is NOT the current value - you must look at knob position.

i don't understand how you're showing 2.0 on the Input Trim in that picture with the knob at 10 o' clock when it seems the modifier isn't attached?
 

Smittefar

Fractal Fanatic
Input trim is log scale. I am too tired to do the math that will get you a value of 2, but around 60-70% sounds about right
 

6stringscott

Inspired
Thanks for cracking the code guys... I haven't tested it yet but it makes perfect sense based on knob labels:
Controller 0% = 10^(-1) = Trim 0.1
Controller 50% = 10^(0) = Trim 1
Controller 100% = 10^(1) = Trim 10

So this should be the function:
Controller % = 100 * ( ( log10( Desired_Trim ) + 1) / 2 )

Here is a quick reference sheet for other folks who bang their heads against this issue:
upload_2017-5-11_16-0-43.png

p.s. To answer your question Chris: the value displayed on any knob with a controller assignable shows the last static value I assigned (even if it is presently assigned to a controller transmitting a different value), but the knob position does seem to track the real-time status of the controller position. It's kind of annoying, but not a major issue for me to gripe about.

p.s.s. I read the question better, and my answer is "I don't know." I will check it out when I go back to set up my trims using scenes instead of X/Y. I got through the night find last night with just the X/Y and some PEQ boost, but this will be nice to reintegrate scene controllers.
 
Last edited:

bradlake

Axe-Master
Thanks for cracking the code guys... I haven't tested it yet but it makes perfect sense based on knob labels:
Controller 0% = 10^(-1) = Trim 0.1
Controller 50% = 10^(0) = Trim 1
Controller 100% = 10^(1) = Trim 10

So this should be the function:
Controller % = 100 * ( ( log10( Desired_Trim ) + 1) / 2 )

Here is a quick reference sheet for other folks who bang their heads against this issue:
View attachment 39761

p.s. To answer your question Chris: the value displayed on any knob with a controller assignable shows the last static value I assigned (even if it is presently assigned to a controller transmitting a different value), but the knob position does seem to track the real-time status of the controller position. It's kind of annoying, but not a major issue for me to gripe about.

p.s.s. I read the question better, and my answer is "I don't know." I will check it out when I go back to set up my trims using scenes instead of X/Y. I got through the night find last night with just the X/Y and some PEQ boost, but this will be nice to reintegrate scene controllers.
Thanks for cracking the code guys... I haven't tested it yet but it makes perfect sense based on knob labels:
Controller 0% = 10^(-1) = Trim 0.1
Controller 50% = 10^(0) = Trim 1
Controller 100% = 10^(1) = Trim 10

So this should be the function:
Controller % = 100 * ( ( log10( Desired_Trim ) + 1) / 2 )

Here is a quick reference sheet for other folks who bang their heads against this issue:
View attachment 39761

p.s. To answer your question Chris: the value displayed on any knob with a controller assignable shows the last static value I assigned (even if it is presently assigned to a controller transmitting a different value), but the knob position does seem to track the real-time status of the controller position. It's kind of annoying, but not a major issue for me to gripe about.

p.s.s. I read the question better, and my answer is "I don't know." I will check it out when I go back to set up my trims using scenes instead of X/Y. I got through the night find last night with just the X/Y and some PEQ boost, but this will be nice to reintegrate scene controllers.
This appears correct to my ignorant eyes...if so, this should be wiki"d by @yek if not done already..Thanks.
 

6stringscott

Inspired
Just a quick update... I used this chart yesterday and verified that it gives me the sounds I want :)

Here's a fuller reference chart because I needed to use a very low trim value with a high gain amp to get a nice full clean sound in a different scene from a stadium rocker type sound (plexi jumped 50w with mid-level input gain but very low trim gives a nice full cleanish sound!). This should be enough to get anything you want or interpolate for minor adjustments:

upload_2017-5-18_9-14-12.png
 

Attachments

Kylyx

Member
Great chart! Thank God for Geeks. ;) Would love to take a crack at that patch you're describing when it's finished!
 
Top Bottom