Scene changes - amp channels and audio gaps?

Hi everyone,
Just a quick question about the FM3 and it’s scene switching abilities.
I used to own an Axe FX ii and used it for several years. No doubts the tones are superb and the possibilities are endless.
I’m very familiar with the tonal quality.

I had issues with the gap between switching patches. I understand when switching presets the entire system reboots the loading process creating a little gap.
Has this been eliminated on the FM3?
When using scenes I have read it is the most effective. Is this still the case using one preset and multiple amp channels in the amp block and assigning them to different scenes?
Is switching instant? Do delays and reverbs spillover smoothly?

Thanks very much.
 
Hi everyone,
Just a quick question about the FM3 and it’s scene switching abilities.
I used to own an Axe FX ii and used it for several years. No doubts the tones are superb and the possibilities are endless.
I’m very familiar with the tonal quality.

I had issues with the gap between switching patches. I understand when switching presets the entire system reboots the loading process creating a little gap.
Has this been eliminated on the FM3?
When using scenes I have read it is the most effective. Is this still the case using one preset and multiple amp channels in the amp block and assigning them to different scenes?
Is switching instant? Do delays and reverbs spillover smoothly?

Thanks very much.
Presets will still have gap but since you are asking about scenes
yes , there is a small delay when switching channels if you are going from something like an SLO w hall verb to a Shiva w spring you will hear it change
the only way around that would be a crossfade and for that you need the 2 separate amp blocks in the AXE3 , there are some creative solutions and work arounds w scene controllers etc but its still there
 
Presets will still have gap but since you are asking about scenes
yes , there is a small delay when switching channels if you are going from something like an SLO w hall verb to a Shiva w spring you will hear it change
the only way around that would be a crossfade and for that you need the 2 separate amp blocks in the AXE3 , there are some creative solutions and work arounds w scene controllers etc but its still there
Thanks very much for the response.
 
Yeah, it's still there. It's a lot better than it was in the earlier firmware, but still there. Franky, it's a big disappointment being that other modelers have seamless scene switching. Even amp channel switching without a scene change has a gap. But with enough time you get used to it, I suppose.
 
Yeah, it's still there. It's a lot better than it was in the earlier firmware, but still there. Franky, it's a big disappointment being that other modelers have seamless scene switching. Even amp channel switching without a scene change has a gap. But with enough time you get used to it, I suppose.
It’s enough of a disappointment for me to retract from the waiting list I’m afraid.
It’s the main reason I parted ways with the Axe FX2.

Like you say, there are other brands that have worked around the issue. I’m not claiming I understand the engineering behind it. Fractal seem to have superior amp models in my experience, maybe that has something to do with it.
Thanks for the info 👍
 
There was some thing done to speed up the channel changes
and scenes in the Axe3 but i am not sure if that was ever ported or can be , the AXE 3 processor i believe runs a higher speed so it likely able to recalculate and reset the blocks much faster

I have not heard mention of faster switching coming to Fm3 in a while but you never know
 
There was some thing done to speed up the channel changes
and scenes in the Axe3 but i am not sure if that was ever ported or can be , the AXE 3 processor i believe runs a higher speed so it likely able to recalculate and reset the blocks much faster

I have not heard mention of faster switching coming to Fm3 in a while but you never know
@FractalAudio
Is there a chance to have this feature on the FM3 in the near future?
Thanks!
 
One thing I've noticed is that the gap is far less or not there if you keep the same reverb settings on different scenes within the preset, but YMMV.
 
I never had the old Axe FX 2 but I had the AX8, and the amp switching is a lot quicker than the AX8 was. Really it's to the point that I don't worry about workarounds, where with the AX8 I was doing things like experimenting with EQ and drive pedals to make a clean tone for gapless switching.

Yes some competitors have gapless switching and that is very handy in some cases. But there's other advantages to the FM3 channel switching paradigm too which can make some very powerful presets with a lot of variety.
 
Thanks for all the insight, guys. I suppose I’m a little hesitant based on previous experiences with the axe fx 2. (Still a fantastic unit of course.)
Since parting ways with the Axe Fx2 I do miss having all that flexibility in the studio. I use IEM live so direct to FOH is an option in the future.
I considered a few options, the FM3, the QC and the Kemper Stage. I prefer the design of the FM3 and like I said before I’m very familiar with the quality of tones. I’m just concerned the gap between switching will irritate me.
Thanks again. I realise this kind of thing doesn’t irritate some players. Maybe I’m being too picky.
 
Fire up your favorite flesh-and-blood tube amp. Let a chord ring out, and change channels. Listen for the gap. ;) It’ll likely be worse than the FM3.

You get a 15-day return policy with the FM3. Try it out. You’ll know quickly whether it’s an issue for you.
 
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Fire up your favorite flesh-and-blood tube amp. Let a chord ring out, and change channels. Listen for the gap. ;) It’ll likely be worse than the FM3.

You get a 15-day return policy with the FM3. Try it out. You’ll know quickly whether it’s an issue for you.
My old 5150II was gapless. 😬
 
Being the only guitarrist in my band I normally cannot afford any gap when switching. Therefore, a good part of preset design time goes into routing for seamless scene switching.

That being said, I am totally surprised to read this:

It’s the main reason I parted ways with the Axe FX2.

I never had any problem designing seamless switching scenes with the FX2. I can think of very few use cases where this may happen, and most of them involve usage of dual amps. However, since you are considering the FM3, I assume it is not the case, so I'm having a hard time imagining what your specific requirements could be. Maybe kitchen-sink preset with lots of different delays and reverbs?

At some point I switched to the FM3 (not really for the models but because the form factor) and during the first weeks I wanted to go back to the FX2. It took some work and some creative routing/programming, but in the end, I could squeeze everything into perfectly seamless switchable scenes with heavy use of modifiers and only two compromises: 1) use the same amp model for rythm and lead inside one specific song; 2) use plex delay instead of reverb.

At this point, I'm perfectly happy with the FM3 and never look back. The "form factor vs. different amp models in-song" trade off is a no brainer for my specific case.
 
Being the only guitarrist in my band I normally cannot afford any gap when switching. Therefore, a good part of preset design time goes into routing for seamless scene switching.

That being said, I am totally surprised to read this:



I never had any problem designing seamless switching scenes with the FX2. I can think of very few use cases where this may happen, and most of them involve usage of dual amps. However, since you are considering the FM3, I assume it is not the case, so I'm having a hard time imagining what your specific requirements could be. Maybe kitchen-sink preset with lots of different delays and reverbs?

At some point I switched to the FM3 (not really for the models but because the form factor) and during the first weeks I wanted to go back to the FX2. It took some work and some creative routing/programming, but in the end, I could squeeze everything into perfectly seamless switchable scenes with heavy use of modifiers and only two compromises: 1) use the same amp model for rythm and lead inside one specific song; 2) use plex delay instead of reverb.

At this point, I'm perfectly happy with the FM3 and never look back. The "form factor vs. different amp models in-song" trade off is a no brainer for my specific case.
Proceeds to check Reverb for second hand Axe Fx 2 🤣🤣🤣
I was obviously doing something wrong then. It was a hard decision and I still have moments of regret 🤣

Thanks for the insight. It sounds like you’re a very experienced user of the fractal gear. My signal chain was generally straightforward. Nothing too crazy but I enjoyed different amps for clean, crunch and lead. Sort of an Eric Johnson setup.
 
Proceeds to check Reverb for second hand Axe Fx 2 🤣🤣🤣
I was obviously doing something wrong then. It was a hard decision and I still have moments of regret 🤣

Thanks for the insight. It sounds like you’re a very experienced user of the fractal gear. My signal chain was generally straightforward. Nothing too crazy but I enjoyed different amps for clean, crunch and lead. Sort of an Eric Johnson setup.
Experienced in terms of time... maybe (Ultra user since 2010), but in terms of knowledge I would say just "average" compared to most of the gurus here. :sweatsmile:

I do not have any preset at hand right now to share, but basically it all comes down to using two instances in parallel of whatever blocks you want to switch between. If you want to switch between two different amp model sounds, you have to set up two separate amp blocks with your preferred parameters. Then, use some means for switching them in and out the signal path for each scene. That means could be bypassing, volume up/down, mixer... there are some alternatives available.

You are stressing things up a bit introducing three different amp models into the equation o_O:tearsofjoy:. I would say that's not possible in general. At least, I have never tried. However, if the scene switching pattern is always the same, I can imagine one could try to change a given amp block channel when it is silent and sound is coming from the other amp.

...but I must confess... when switching from clean to drive and back, sounds are so different that I do not mind the channel switching gap (at least in the FXIII/FM3 gen). It's totally unperceivable to me.
 
Fractal seem to have superior amp models in my experience, maybe that has something to do with it.
That has everything to do with it. The conundrum is that a more sophisticated amp model has a lot more stuff to swap into the processor when changing presets/channels than a simple one. Some particularly simple modelers can even dedicate a second processor to making preset changes smooth precisely because they are so simple.

I've often wondered though if switching channels but retaining the amp type could be handled as a special case that just updates amp block parameters that change between the two channels/presets. Sort of like a scene controller automatically attached to every amp parameter for the special case when the amp type is the same . Seems like that should be gapless.
 
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