Scene and Preset Switching Lag / latency improvements

tarun

New Member
Do you think we will get amp model switching latency under 50ms? I see this requested by a user in the wish list / feature request forum and +1'ed it.

One thing that has been talked about by users on gear forums a lot, but that I wish I knew about before I purchased the unit, is the lag that happens when you switch between presets or amp models on the FM3.

From what I understand, this is largely CPU-dependent, so there is no real blanket solution that would cover all preset-to-preset changes, given the variability in CPU usage situation to situation. Kemper handles it well, with a performance mode that seems to buffer in a few rigs for much quicker switching between a handful of sounds.

How likely is it that the FM3 will be able to get an imperceivable switching latency between amp models? I even notice a tiny bit of lag in scene changes using the same amp, and though that's much less, it still has a small gap.

In all, I'm wondering: how likely given the hardware present on the fm3 is it that software updates will be able to get that time down?
 
Do you think we will get amp model switching latency under 50ms? I see this requested by a user in the wish list / feature request forum and +1'ed it.

One thing that has been talked about by users on gear forums a lot, but that I wish I knew about before I purchased the unit, is the lag that happens when you switch between presets or amp models on the FM3.

From what I understand, this is largely CPU-dependent, so there is no real blanket solution that would cover all preset-to-preset changes, given the variability in CPU usage situation to situation. Kemper handles it well, with a performance mode that seems to buffer in a few rigs for much quicker switching between a handful of sounds.

How likely is it that the FM3 will be able to get an imperceivable switching latency between amp models? I even notice a tiny bit of lag in scene changes using the same amp, and though that's much less, it still has a small gap.

In all, I'm wondering: how likely given the hardware present on the fm3 is it that software updates will be able to get that time down?
Matt stated earlier in the FM3 Status thread that the new firmware will have performance improvements. I would feel safe to say that there will be some reduction in switching time.
 
I hope so. The FM3 already has noticeably better dry amp sounds than the Axe FX II MKII I had on ARES up til end of last year, when I traded that model for a Kemper Powerhead.

I like the form factor of the powered Kemper toaster a lot, but as many have reported on, it has a fizziness and sameness to the tone across many types of amps. The Fractal tone is much more exciting to me and is much more adjustable. I love the FM3 form factor even more than the Kemper, but the switching is the only thing tempering my excitement.

If it gets to the point where the FM3 has lower latency switching, and good crossfade and spillover management like the Kemper, it will be a pretty ultimate unit. It already has everything I need besides fast enough switching.
 
How likely is it that the FM3 will be able to get an imperceivable switching latency between amp models?

Depending on the definition of "imperceivable". If you mean "absolutely seamless" when listening to guitar alone... My opinion is that it will never be "imperceivable".

However, my personal experience is that in a rock band context, you can make it "imperceivable". I can make all kinds of tone changes (rythm-solo-rythm, rythm-clean-rythm, whatever...) and, even being the only guitarrist, all of them are not noticeable. And I do not need to be "preset-change aware" when playing, such as stoping a second before tone changes. Maybe you sometimes have to bend over backwards when designing some specific presets/scenes, work with MUXs, Mixers and modifiers, or EQ the same amp model instead of changing a model.

But if you absolutely need completely seamless changes under any condition, I would not expect that from the FM3.
 
...However, my personal experience is that in a rock band context, you can make it "imperceivable". I can make all kinds of tone changes (rythm-solo-rythm, rythm-clean-rythm, whatever...) and, even being the only guitarrist, all of them are not noticeable. And I do not need to be "preset-change aware" when playing, such as stoping a second before tone changes. Maybe you sometimes have to bend over backwards when designing some specific presets/scenes, work with MUXs, Mixers and modifiers, or EQ the same amp model instead of changing a model...

EQ the same amp model instead of changing it? Maybe that works for you but it doesn't for me. A huge part of the draw of the FM3 for me is to use X amp for a clean tone, Y amp for rhythm and Z amp for lead. As it sits, when I switch scenes there's a pretty bad lag between releasing the button on my midi pedal and the scene actually switching. It's bad to the point that if it doesn't improve I will be sticking with my Axe FX standard for live use which switches presets pretty much seamlessly. The form factor, features and amp models in the FM3 are amazing but unless the scene or preset changing improves its gonna keep feeling a super hot girlfriend that's bad in bed. Crossing my fingers that she improves and we don't have to break up.
 
EQ the same amp model instead of changing it? Maybe that works for you but it doesn't for me. A huge part of the draw of the FM3 for me is to use X amp for a clean tone, Y amp for rhythm and Z amp for lead. As it sits, when I switch scenes there's a pretty bad lag between releasing the button on my midi pedal and the scene actually switching. It's bad to the point that if it doesn't improve I will be sticking with my Axe FX standard for live use which switches presets pretty much seamlessly. The form factor, features and amp models in the FM3 are amazing but unless the scene or preset changing improves its gonna keep feeling a super hot girlfriend that's bad in bed. Crossing my fingers that she improves and we don't have to break up.

I suppose we all have different expectations, uses, perceptions etc. but I am finding scene changes which include changes between amp channels to be really fast to the point where I have no doubt they will prove to be pretty seamless when we finally get out of this f****** lockdown that's been going on in my part of the UK since July, and I get to play with my band again.

I know that the FM3 defaults to switching on the release of the switch, (to allow use of the hold function), so I wonder if this could be the reason why some people are finding the switching lag to be unacceptable? Having said that I reread your post and you are using a MIDI pedal so that probably blows my theory out of the water.......
 
I don't have any hold functions enabled on the FM3 and yeah, just simple one press scene change operations on the midi pedal. I'm surprised the switching is working for you. Kind of makes me want to record something to show what I'm talking about. I have to press the button considerably ahead of time for it to switch on time in a song. I made sure to try different midi pedals to make sure its not the pedal. The behavior is the same when using the FM3's on board switches as well.
 
I don't have any hold functions enabled on the FM3 and yeah, just simple one press scene change operations on the midi pedal. I'm surprised the switching is working for you. Kind of makes me want to record something to show what I'm talking about. I have to press the button considerably ahead of time for it to switch on time in a song. I made sure to try different midi pedals to make sure its not the pedal. The behavior is the same when using the FM3's on board switches as well.
I assume you don't have FM3-Edit running while doing this?
 
EQ the same amp model instead of changing it? Maybe that works for you but it doesn't for me. A huge part of the draw of the FM3 for me is to use X amp for a clean tone, Y amp for rhythm and Z amp for lead. As it sits, when I switch scenes there's a pretty bad lag between releasing the button on my midi pedal and the scene actually switching. It's bad to the point that if it doesn't improve I will be sticking with my Axe FX standard for live use which switches presets pretty much seamlessly. The form factor, features and amp models in the FM3 are amazing but unless the scene or preset changing improves its gonna keep feeling a super hot girlfriend that's bad in bed. Crossing my fingers that she improves and we don't have to break up.

That's exactly what I meant with "bend over backwards". I too have been using different amps for lead sounds for years, just had to decide between having no gap when changing rythm-lead-rythm sounds and using different amps. And I found out that I could live with using the same amp and it was just much less of a pain than I thought it would be. In addition, life for the sound tech is also better and sound checks are shorter. Bottom line is, as you say, it works for me, but maybe it doesn't work for you.

I'll mention that I still use different amps between songs and for clean sounds. Gap is manageable there. FOR ME.

And I'll also mention that I got the AFXIII and the FM3. I had to decide between them for live use, so I chose the overall better solution for me, I was not forced to use the FM3. And I chose the FM3 for the convenience of the form factor (and I am not even using the switches! everything is MIDI triggered). I found workarounds for almost every feature that was in the AFXIII and was not in the FM3. Diffusion, Plex delay, mixer and modifiers for switching...

If you absolutelly need to have seamless switching between amp models, there's no other way: go full AFX.

And finally, the comparison you make with the Standard makes me think there is something improvable in your setup. Follow unix-guy advice here. I've had the Ultra for ages and was not particularly fond of its switching lag. Those days, I still had to be "switching aware" indeed in my playing.

I assume you don't have FM3-Edit running while doing this?
 
I avoid all the gaps and lags by just picking one amp for the preset and using 2-3 scene controllers to change preamp gain and master volume for each scene. Super easy to do so I'm really happy about the 4 scene controllers in the FM3.
 
I assume you don't have FM3-Edit running while doing this?

Nope, my FM3 is not hooked up to my PC.

...And finally, the comparison you make with the Standard makes me think there is something improvable in your setup. Follow unix-guy advice here. I've had the Ultra for ages and was not particularly fond of its switching lag. Those days, I still had to be "switching aware" indeed in my playing.

That's interesting 'cause preset switching on my Standard is virtually flawless. I'm using a real power amp & cab with it, fwiw (if that makes a difference).
 
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