• We would like to remind our members that this is a privately owned, run and supported forum. You are here at the invitation and discretion of the owners. As such, rules and standards of conduct will be applied that help keep this forum functioning as the owners desire. These include, but are not limited to, removing content and even access to the forum.

    Please give yourself a refresher on the forum rules you agreed to follow when you signed up.

Says the Producer/Engineer: Your gain sounds are too compressed...bigger tone

ari

Inspired
So I was working on tracks on Sat night when the producer said that the high gain tones were great but too "small" and compressed. Mind you i was using the Recto Red patch and a the modern eddie patch (with the occasional solo 99 lead sound). So how do all of you get that "huge sound"? Mind you nothing is in the signal chain except amp cab and some delay/reverb. Which advanced parameters do you guys use? Thanks in advance....Ari
 

fredster

Inspired
If he's the producer, he should know how to get the sound he wants. That's his job. That said, I think "bigness", whatever that means, is generally done with layering multiple tracks. Different cabs, mics, gain structures, guitars, chord forms, can all contribute to a full sound. I don't believe you'll get it with one specific setting...

IMHO, YMMV, etc.
 

chris

Legend!
Hmm will you be double tracking? That thickens things up and is pretty standard. Maybe your tones have too much gain, which naturally compresses the tone.

Have you tried the enhancer in the signal path? Are you running stereo?
 

jon

Fractal Fanatic
Sounds like too much gain to me. Enhancer might help, as well as some chorus (in stereo) and you might even try the resonator or enhancer blocks. I'd look at reducing the gain first tho.
 

schlagdog

Inspired
Hmm will you be double tracking? That thickens things up and is pretty standard. Maybe your tones have too much gain, which naturally compresses the tone.

Have you tried the enhancer in the signal path? Are you running stereo?
So far I have had the best luck using my own IR's. The cabs you can buy and the stock ones on the AXE are usually really compressed and extra tight. It might just me my ear because I am used to a certain sound but the cab models usually don't sound like actually recorded cabs to me ever. Try to capture different IR's with different amps power sections.
 

Sammetal91

Power User
Less gain is the way to go. You really don't need as much sustain as you want. Plus, your engineer/producer will like you more :)
 

MaxTwang

Experienced
The Drive and Master on the Amp block are probably set too high, with firmware 3 the Master on high gain amps can be turned down around 2 or 3. Try rolling back the volume on your guitar, the AxeII rewards changes in guitar volume settings with changes in gain.
 
Last edited:

aleclee

Power User
schlagdog said:
The cabs you can buy and the stock ones on the AXE are usually really compressed and extra tight.
They might not suit your ear but IRs don't add compression.
 

schlagdog

Inspired
I realize that but its my way of saying they usually sound boxy and somehow take away most of the openness. I don't know, I bought tons of IR's and dislike about 90% of them. It's probably just the way my ear is tuned and used to.
 

billmeedog

Inspired
No name bar & grill...

If he's the producer, he should know how to get the sound he wants. That's his job.
fredster,

In principal, what you're saying here is totally true! However, I don't think that we're at a point in music-recording history where every producer is assumed to know all of the inner-workings of a F.A.S. Axe-FX preamp/processor?!? That said, IF the producer in question claims to be an Axe-FX owner or "guru" then forget what I said - LOL! If the producer owns a unit and uses it as a selling-point in his sales-pitch to the band for example, then he (the producer) SHOULD be able to get inside the Axe-FX and dial-it-in the way they think it should sound!

Also, let's not forget the (probably small) faction of professionals who (for one reason or another) are "rooting against" the Axe-FX products, perhaps even using what their eyes read in an article on the internet RATHER than what their ears are hearing in-person with an open-mind! If you're working with a well-known and/or respected producer, then this latter theory is probably NOT true!

I think "bigness", whatever that means, is generally done with layering multiple tracks. Different cabs, mics, gain structures, guitars, chord forms, can all contribute to a full sound. I don't believe you'll get it with one specific setting...

IMHO, YMMV, etc.
+1000.

ALL good points...Totally agreed.

Bill
 

GiRa

Power User
To me, like many others, the main culprits are:
- too much gain
- bad strings, too thin ones
- right hand technique
- vibrato

If you are working with a producer probably you have to solve only the first twos.
 

Scott Peterson

Global Moderator
Moderator
Also in addition to the fine advice above - if you are tracking, turn off your delay and reverb. Cut a direct track and then reamp with slight delay for double tracking.

Never, ever, cut 'wet' tracks with delay and reverb unless absolutely integral to the actual track. Always better, IMHO, to add the effects upon mixdown.
 

fredster

Inspired
fredster,
In principal, what you're saying here is totally true! However, I don't think that we're at a point in music-recording history where every producer is assumed to know all of the inner-workings of a F.A.S. Axe-FX preamp/processor?!? That said, IF the producer in question claims to be an Axe-FX owner or "guru" then forget what I said - LOL! If the producer owns a unit and uses it as a selling-point in his sales-pitch to the band for example, then he (the producer) SHOULD be able to get inside the Axe-FX and dial-it-in the way they think it should sound!
Bill,

I agree, I wouldn't expect anyone but a long time Axe-FX owner to know it's inner workings. :) My point was that there is no "bigness" parameter in the Axe-FX, just as there is no "bigness" knob on a traditional amp. I would expect a producer to know that, and ask for specifics. "Let's layer up some tracks - can your box act like a Plexi and then a boosted 800?" would be more productive than "Make it sound bigger". The terms engineer and producer get thrown around a lot but their real meanings get lost I think.
 

simeon

Axe-Master
also more mids will make a track sound bigger. compare any ac/dc with a metallica track. the guitars on the ac/dc tracks sound bigger to my ears - more mids, less gain, bigger sound
 

MKeditor

Experienced
You might try laying down a track with low to mid gain wth a les Paul through a clean plexi or deluxe patch with a drive in front for just a bit of dirt when you spank it. This will be very dynamic. Then add your high gain on top and mix to suit.
 

guittarzzan

Inspired
My 2 cents:

-Stay the hell away from the modern Eddie patch or anything with an enhancer on it-you're begging for weirdness in the mix and/or with blending with other guitar tracks. Dial in a good tone and you shouldn't need an enhancer imo.

-Dial in the very least amount of gain you can stand for your rhythm tones especially if you're double/quad tracking. Don't even try to use anywhere close to as much gain as you would playing live. This one thing overlooked can make all your hard work sound small, flat and lacking dynamics in the mix.

-Make sure you're hitting your converters moderately and aren't in the clipping/soft clipping zone

-Play with panning. Maybe hard left and right will work or maybe you need to bring both in a bit if the guitar tracks are fighting other instruments. Any competent mix engineer will do this and find a good space for each instrument.

If none of the above works, you might look at the arrangement and how the guitars are interacting with the bass and drums etc. If that doesn't help, then good luck because you have problems. :)

cheers,
Steve
 

ari

Inspired
Thank you guys! All wonderful answers. I shut off everything in the chain other than amp and cab (except for the 'ambience tracks.' I honestly need to go back to check the gain settings, but they weren't too high. This producer is by no means a guitar nut, but we were comparing to some other tracks on previous recordings etc where the individual tracks sounded a drop more "in your face." It was only for rhythm, and yes I layered and we got the sound we wanted by layering, but again I was looking for individual track advice. I kinda thought you guys were gonna mention transformer drive, LF and HF resonance and things like that. Do any of you push those when recording high gain in the studio?
 
Top Bottom