RNHP Headphone Amp

N

nandro48

Member
I have Beyerdynamic 1990 Pro headphones (rated at 250 ohms). I am considering buying an RNHP headphone amp as I listen at very high levels playing metal (Killswitch, Lamb of God, etc.). Output seems to distort at high levels -- is it worth buying the RNHP?
 
thud_peterson said:
Personally I'd just get a lower ohm headphone and use the Fractal headphone amp. With a lower ohm headphone set it's a great headphone amp.

Also https://www.audiosciencereview.com/forum/index.php is really good for headphone and amp reviews. Generally you can just skip to the conclusion.
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I spent $600 on the headphones so the idea of going back to square one isn't the direction I want to go. From what I've seen, a lot of the studio headphones are high impedance anyway. Thank you for the suggestion nonetheless.
 
A few thoughts:

The RNHP is excellent, I use it daily with more accurate results from it than the built-in Fractal headphone amp (35ohm) with both low and high impedance headphones (Ollo S4X, Audeze LCD-X, 64audio custom molded 6 driver IEMs). This is due to its extremely low output impedance of .01 Ohm at 1kHz. I wasn't able to find impedance or output power specs online for the behringer monitor controller posted above, which is not surprising given that it provides both a DA converter and monitor controller for ~$100. It may "get the job done" for talent tracking vocals where clinical accuracy is not the primary concern, but for when it is the primary concern, it will likely not give as consistently accurate results with as wide a variety of headphones, and likely not provide as much power. Same goes for Fractal's 35ohm headphone amp, although it is easily able to drive high impedance headphones to hearing-damage levels without audible distortion.

With that said, through the Beyerdynamic 1990 you may not notice a difference between the Fractal headphone amp and the RNHP if you're playing things so loud that you're experiencing distortion with Fractal's headphone amp, which has a sufficiently low output impedance (35ohm) to correctly drive higher impedance headphones like yours. I'd urge you to skip the RNHP and reconsider your volume levels as hearing damage is cumulative and permanent.
 
strabes said:
A few thoughts:

The RNHP is excellent, I use it daily with more accurate results from it than the built-in Fractal headphone amp (35ohm) with both low and high impedance headphones (Ollo S4X, Audeze LCD-X, 64audio custom molded 6 driver IEMs). This is due to its extremely low output impedance of .01 Ohm at 1kHz. I wasn't able to find impedance or output power specs online for the behringer monitor controller posted above, which is not surprising given that it provides both a DA converter and monitor controller for ~$100. It may "get the job done" for talent tracking vocals where clinical accuracy is not the primary concern, but for when it is the primary concern, it will likely not give as consistently accurate results with as wide a variety of headphones, and likely not provide as much power. Same goes for Fractal's 35ohm headphone amp, although it is easily able to drive high impedance headphones to hearing-damage levels without audible distortion.

With that said, through the Beyerdynamic 1990 you may not notice a difference between the Fractal headphone amp and the RNHP if you're playing things so loud that you're experiencing distortion with Fractal's headphone amp, which has a sufficiently low output impedance (35ohm) to correctly drive higher impedance headphones like yours. I'd urge you to skip the RNHP and reconsider your volume levels as hearing damage is cumulative and permanent.
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Point taken - what I'm referring to is the vast difference in sound between my HS8's and the headphones at comparable volume levels. I didn't want to open the "monitors vs. headphones" can of worms. It's not necessarily distortion, more like quality.

To summarize: am I chasing a ghost in trying to replicate the tightness and gratification that comes from playing on my HS8's through headphones? I realize they are different worlds, but I can't seem to feel satisfied playing through headphones no matter what I do with EQ adjustments and whatnot.
 
nandro48 said:
Point taken - what I'm referring to is the vast difference in sound between my HS8's and the headphones at comparable volume levels. I didn't want to open the "monitors vs. headphones" can of worms. It's not necessarily distortion, more like quality.

To summarize: am I chasing a ghost in trying to replicate the tightness and gratification that comes from playing on my HS8's through headphones? I realize they are different worlds, but I can't seem to feel satisfied playing through headphones no matter what I do with EQ adjustments and whatnot.
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Ah that clarifies things quite a bit. Could be a few issues. First, the Yamaha series HS8 is actually quite good for the money IMO, I personally have the HS7 as a secondary set. I find that they translate well. Their frequency response is pretty flat in the audible range:

hs8.png
Obviously your room will affect this quite a bit, if you have a cube room with no acoustic treatment your perceived frequency response will have huge peaks and valleys but that's a whole other issue.

Anyway, here's the frequency response of the DT1990:

fr-dt1990-balanced.png

As you can see, there's a huge cut at ~4500hz and a huge boost at ~8k. This results in a very sibilant sound and IMO all Beyerdynamic headphones that I've tried suffer from it (770, 880, 990, 1990). There's also a wide low mid boost and a roll off below 80. Honestly I can't stand playing guitar or listening to music through any beyerdynamic headphones and I scratch my head every time I see them recommended for this purpose. The sound is totally unnatural and the high end is ridiculously hyped.

Personally, of all the headphones I've tried (many, at all price points), I prefer Ollo S4X for listening to music, mixing, and playing instruments. Each pair is individually measured at the shop. Here is the frequency response of my particular set (sorry for the bad pic). I have never seen such a flat frequency response in any other headphone.


S4X.jpg

My pair actually went back to Slovenia earlier this year for a repair (I had dropped them pretty hard a few times off my desk so finally one of the drivers failed) and they came back with this updated frequency response chart.

These headphones are such a joy to work with. The bass is super tight and clear, you can hear the separation between synth bass and bass guitar on modern tracks whereas on many other headphones everything below 150 is basically a wall of loose flubby mud. The treble is pretty flat and not overhyped like on a lot of headphones, especially beyerdynamics. I'm very comfortable even dialing in tones on them to use live, but I still always double check through the monitors. They are a relatively low impedance (32ohm) so they can be powered with mobile devices, but I don't notice a significant difference powering them with Fractal's headphone amp vs. RNHP. The main reason I got the RNHP is so that I would have consistent headphone performance no matter which unit I'm using at the time (I make and sell presets for several vendors' hardware modelers). I don't need to adjust EQ at all when switching between S4X, monitors, and live.

So all that to say, I'd return the DT1990, grab a pair of Ollo S4X, and see what you think.

Other guitar-specific tips for headphones: enhancer block at the end of your preset is a game changer. It's basically a stereo widener, like adding Microshift to a mono BGV track. I also usually use at least a small stereo reverb. I really like the Fractal London Plate model. Stereo amps+cabs is huge too but adds a lot of complexity to your left/right gain staging and volume balancing. Obviously none of this applies if I'm tracking (usually just double track in mono), but for just playing/practicing for a show then those 3 together make my headphone experience pretty great.
 
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Sound on Sound ‘s review of the Olli’s wasn’t very positive.
 
strabes said:
Ah that clarifies things quite a bit. Could be a few issues. First, the Yamaha series HS8 is actually quite good for the money IMO, I personally have the HS7 as a secondary set. I find that they translate well. Their frequency response is pretty flat in the audible range:

View attachment 93235
Obviously your room will affect this quite a bit, if you have a cube room with no acoustic treatment your perceived frequency response will have huge peaks and valleys but that's a whole other issue.

Anyway, here's the frequency response of the DT1990:

View attachment 93236

As you can see, there's a huge cut at ~4500hz and a huge boost at ~8k. This results in a very sibilant sound and IMO all Beyerdynamic headphones that I've tried suffer from it (770, 880, 990, 1990). There's also a wide low mid boost and a roll off below 80. Honestly I can't stand playing guitar or listening to music through any beyerdynamic headphones and I scratch my head every time I see them recommended for this purpose. The sound is totally unnatural and the high end is ridiculously hyped.

Personally, of all the headphones I've tried (many, at all price points), I prefer Ollo S4X for listening to music, mixing, and playing instruments. Each pair is individually measured at the shop. Here is the frequency response of my particular set (sorry for the bad pic). I have never seen such a flat frequency response in any other headphone.


View attachment 93237

My pair actually went back to Slovenia earlier this year for a repair (I had dropped them pretty hard a few times off my desk so finally one of the drivers failed) and they came back with this updated frequency response chart.

These headphones are such a joy to work with. The bass is super tight and clear, you can hear the separation between synth bass and bass guitar on modern tracks whereas on many other headphones everything below 150 is basically a wall of loose flubby mud. The treble is pretty flat and not overhyped like on a lot of headphones, especially beyerdynamics. I'm very comfortable even dialing in tones on them to use live, but I still always double check through the monitors. They are a relatively low impedance (32ohm) so they can be powered with mobile devices, but I don't notice a significant difference powering them with Fractal's headphone amp vs. RNHP. The main reason I got the RNHP is so that I would have consistent headphone performance no matter which unit I'm using at the time (I make and sell presets for several vendors' hardware modelers). I don't need to adjust EQ at all when switching between S4X, monitors, and live.

So all that to say, I'd return the DT1990, grab a pair of Ollo S4X, and see what you think.

Other guitar-specific tips for headphones: enhancer block at the end of your preset is a game changer. It's basically a stereo widener, like adding Microshift to a mono BGV track. I also usually use at least a small stereo reverb. I really like the Fractal London Plate model. Stereo amps+cabs is huge too but adds a lot of complexity to your left/right gain staging and volume balancing. Obviously none of this applies if I'm tracking (usually just double track in mono), but for just playing/practicing for a show then those 3 together make my headphone experience pretty great.
Click to expand...
Thank you for taking the time to write up such a detailed post - you are awesome!

I realize a lot of people have that same sibilance complaint about Beyerdynamics - I tried GEQ and PEQ blocks using AutoEQ measurements to try to get the "HS8 sound" but still am not quite satisfied. Hard to justify another headphones purchase when I have $600 ones already. The 1990s are way past the return window.

My initial thought was to try the Sennheiser 650s since they seem to be largely popular. Any thoughts on those?
 
nandro48 said:
Thank you for taking the time to write up such a detailed post - you are awesome!

I realize a lot of people have that same sibilance complaint about Beyerdynamics - I tried GEQ and PEQ blocks using AutoEQ measurements to try to get the "HS8 sound" but still am not quite satisfied. Hard to justify another headphones purchase when I have $600 ones already. The 1990s are way past the return window.

My initial thought was to try the Sennheiser 650s since they seem to be largely popular. Any thoughts on those?
Click to expand...
I have both Beyerdynamic DT 990 Pros 250 ohm and Sennheiser HD6XX (Drop.com variant of the HD650). The HD6XX sound much more natural plugged straight into the FM3 without any correction. That doesn't mean they are flat, I just find them more flat than the DT 990s out of the box. The Sennheisers do benefit from some output EQ corrections too but need far less drastic ones.

Chasing the same sound on studio monitors vs headphones is a fool's errand. I find that my presets built with my Genelec M040 studio monitors with room correction translate pretty decently to the HD6XX but they are two different experiences no matter what and that's fine.

If it bothers you, make different presets for headphone use and apply AutoEQ corrections to the output settings. The DT 1990s should still give you good results.

Also please be careful about volume levels. I know it's more fun to play loud but it can really cause ear damage over time.
 
laxu said:
I have both Beyerdynamic DT 990 Pros 250 ohm and Sennheiser HD6XX (Drop.com variant of the HD650). The HD6XX sound much more natural plugged straight into the FM3 without any correction. That doesn't mean they are flat, I just find them more flat than the DT 990s out of the box. The Sennheisers do benefit from some output EQ corrections too but need far less drastic ones.

Chasing the same sound on studio monitors vs headphones is a fool's errand. I find that my presets built with my Genelec M040 studio monitors with room correction translate pretty decently to the HD6XX but they are two different experiences no matter what and that's fine.

If it bothers you, make different presets for headphone use and apply AutoEQ corrections to the output settings. The DT 1990s should still give you good results.

Also please be careful about volume levels. I know it's more fun to play loud but it can really cause ear damage over time.
Click to expand...
Thank you for the reply, much appreciated! I got a weird sense of satisfaction from you saying it's a fool's errand. Glad I don't have to chase that anymore.

That said, I just got the 650s today. They are indeed flatter, and I don't get the sibilance that I got with the 1990s. I enjoy playing along to Killswitch songs, and it's less practical to adjust EQ on everything. The only downside is that they leak a lot more sound than I expected. TBD on whether or not I'll keep them. Thanks all for the help!
 
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