RJM Mastermind GT vs. the competition?

A

Action Jackson

Member
Seriously considering the Mastermind GT, and have been ever since the prototype debuted two years ago, although the price tag makes my head hurt. It looks to be the most sophisticated/flexible controller on the market, and the individual screens were a feature I had been dreaming of in a MIDI controller. Thoughts? Is there anything that the FAMC Liquid Foot+ PRO+, MFC, or other controllers can do that the GT can't? Features the GT doesn't have? I get the impression that the GT may also be easier to use than the LF+ PRO+, and that RJM's support/communication/service may be better than FAMC's, although I could be wrong.

Convince me this thing is worth the price, or convince me otherwise.
 
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No experience with any of the competition but I have one and can say that the support from Ron is flawless.

One of the biggest plusses compared to any other unit is that you can program it with ease, without using a PC editor and with no manual in sight - it's that intuitive. Check out their videos on Youtube if you haven't.

If you're only ever going to have an axefx2 in your rack and nothing else then it's a bit overkill, but if you plan on controlling multiple devices then yeah why not. Personally I only have the axefx2 and don't think I'll ever need anything else but I liked the idea of the colour screens and the 4 row 6 column layout. Also I wear size 13 shoes so it's nice to have some breathing space inbetween the buttons too - it's quite a large beast!
 
Action Jackson said:
Seriously considering the Mastermind GT, and have been ever since the prototype debuted two years ago, although the price tag makes my head hurt. It looks to be the most sophisticated/flexible controller on the market, and the individual screens were a feature I had been dreaming of in a MIDI controller. Thoughts? Is there anything that the FAMC Liquid Foot+ PRO+, MFC, or other controllers can do that the GT can't? Features the GT doesn't have? I get the impression that the GT may also be easier to use than the LF+ PRO+, and that RJM's support/communication/service may be better than FAMC's, although I could be wrong.

Convince me this thing is worth the price, or convince me otherwise.
Click to expand...

Never used the LF but was on the wait list so did some research etc. Their stuff looks really cool but hard as hell to actually buy. I would agree that RJM seems more rsponsive. I get email replies very promptly and they have gone the extra mile to help me.

Some of the stuff ron is adding will make the MMGT leaps ahead of other FC in my opinion. Midi Clock master slave and through, different page of button layout per preset etc. Can't wait to get the new upgrades when ready but am loving the MMGT so far. Most versatile FC I have ever used or heard about.

Sure it is expensive, I got the intro price of $1749, bought the phantom power box and midi xlr cable so came to about 2k. Add a pedal train pro with ATA case and we are at 2300. 3 mission pedals for another 500 bucks or so. Mission TT pro for 75 bucks and I just ordered about 100 bucks of custom L TRS cables.

Worth every penny so far.
 
I don't think anyone can convince you. Possibly inform instead :)

But what and how you plan to use a foot controller and in conjunction with what equipment would be useful to add as then any comments would be in context.
 
stratamania said:
I don't think anyone can convince you. Possibly inform instead :)

But what and how you plan to use a foot controller and in conjunction with what equipment would be useful to add as then any comments would be in context.
Click to expand...

I agree. If the OP uses just the axe and no other devices, the MMGT is less useful.
If the OP uses a handful of presets, it is less useful as well.

I am waiting for new features being added in 2.0. Even without those, seeing patch names above the buttons, different colors and labels for IAs and ease of programming make it well worth it for me.
 
Gordius:
- Retain effect state when switching presets
- Macros: store multiple commands in one macro and reuse in multiple presets
- Conditional programming
- Variables
- Dynamic memory: almost no limit on number of presets, banks, songs
- Inheritance: Make a bank and have other banks inherit the settings.
- 2 Direct banks: each preset can have different direct banks do you effectively have 39 switches
In fact you can assign a different bank to D1 and/or D2 for each switch. So you can have 13 x 2 direct banks
 
I have the LF+ Pro+ and I'm a huge fan of it.

I never used a Mastermind GT, but looking at the videos and the manual, it seems to me that the LF+ has more possibilities.

It has 24 buttons (2 more than GT). Each button can have 2 functions, holding the button more than 0.5 second (adjustable) you access the second function. So you can easily state that you have 48 commands available.

Each IA-button can have 20 commands ON and 20 commands OFF (10 on the GT).

Totally compatible with the Axe-Fx: IA-states, names, scenes, tuner, tap-tempo, ...

Like the GT you have pages, but on the GT only 16, the LF+ 60 (but I admit who needs more than 16).

Aside the 2 functions per button, the LF+ outclasses the GT with the huge amount of 45 different commands.
MIDI Command (program change, control change, note on/off, ....)
Auto- Tap-Tempo
Change Page
Change IA-Map
Change Song
Delay (ms)
Mod EXP MIDI #
Resend Current EXP
Send Exp Value
Change Exp IA trigger
Mod EXP CC#
EXP Slot 2 CC#
EXP Slot 2 Invert
EXP Slot 2 MIDI
External Dev Sync
Force IA Color Change
Toggle Page Function #1/#2
Go Global
G-Tuner
IA OFF Trig
IA ON Trig
IA Resend
IA Toggle
IF IA is ON, Stop
IF IA is OFF, Stop
IF IA is ON, Skip
IF IA is OFF, Skip
IF Processing Trigger, Skip
Last Page
Last Preset
Activate MTC
Preset Trigger
Recall Stored Preset
Recall Stored Song #
Resend Initial IA-Initial States
Set color
Set Status #1 LED CLR
Step
Store Preset
Store Current Song #
Stop
Sysex Send
System Snapshot Restore
System SnapShot Store
Trigger 1st Bank Preset


​
It's probably a little harder to program due all the possibilities, but you can make it as easy as you want. Excellent editor is included.

And above all, it's $600 cheaper.

Of course this is all IMHO and YMMV.
 
Prince Patrick,

We should get together and compare controllers ;)

The Little Giant can store :
- 1000 patches
- 1000 triggers
- 1000 2-state effects
- 1000 momentary effects
- 1000 banks
- 1000 songs
- 1000 banklists
- 1000 setlists
- Each preset can contain an “unlimited” number of MIDI messages
A setup which contains :
- 1000 patches, each containing a ProgChange MIDI message for sound selection
- 1000 2-state effects, each containing 2 CtrlChange MIDI messages (one for effect activation,
and another one for effect deactivation)
- 1000 banks of 10 switches each. Each of the 10000 switches has a preset assigned to it
- 1000 songs, each referencing one of the 1000 banks
- 10 setlists, each containing 100 songs
This type of setup (may we call it a HUGE setup?) takes approximately 50% of the available storage
capacity…


Gordius Commands:
ActivateEffect
ActivateContCtrl
Metronome
TapTempo
GlobalMetronome
GlobalTapTempo
BlockingDelay
NonBlockingDelay
SyncedBlockDelay
SyncedNonBlDelay
LongPressDelay
LongReleaseDelay
FineSweep
CoarseSweep
NonBlockingSweep
RepeatFrom
RepeatTill
If(Var)
ElseIf(Var)
Else
EndIf
IncVariable
DecVariable
ShowVariable
SetVariable
SetMidiChannel
SetRandomRange
SetD1Bank
SetD2Bank
SetD12Bank
ActivateD1Bank
ActivateD2Bank
ActivateD12Bank
ActivateRegular
ActivateBank
GotoNextBank
GotoPrevBank
RestoreBank
ActivateSong
GotoNextSong
GotoPrevSong
RestoreSong
ActivateBanklist
GotoNextBanklist
GotoPrevBanklist
RestoreBanklist
ActivateSetlist
GotoNextSetlist
GotoPrevSetlist
RestoreSetlist
NextSongPreset
PrevSongPreset
GotoNextPreset
GotoPrevPreset
RestorePreset
AssignSwitch
SetDirPresetMode
SetDirBankMode
SetDirSongMode
SetDirectPCMode
SetDisplayMode
NextDisplayMode
PrevDisplayMode
SetTunerDisplay
BlinkLED
CloseRelay
OpenRelay
SetRouting
SuspendXmission
 
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Hi Mister E,


I'm really impressed by all those command the Little Giant has, it's probably even more advanced than the LF+. But I don't like the form factor and I really find the LCD's on each button really usefull.
 
I totally agree with you on the LCD part.
I wish the Gordius had LCDs. Or a big screen.
The form factor doesn't bother me that much.
It's pretty compact and it's indeed very very versatile.
But you need the depth for pedals so I would also prefer a deeper/wider pedal board with more buttons.
I think a mix between the form factor of the LF+ and the flexibility of the Gordius would be the ultimate controller.

But still, not only the cbunch of commands are a big plus, the dynamlc memory with space for 1000+ presets, banks, songs.... is a big advantage.
Too bad that all the manufacturers of controllers didn't pick up on this since memory is dirt cheap nowadays.

Hell, even my Mitigator back in '89 had space for 128 songs with 5 commands eachs that could hold 128 commands each.
 
Looks like cool stuff even if I have no idea what 90% of it is. . .lol.

To me the new stuff coming for MMGT take it to next level. I have never used the LF+pro+ but asked some questions on their forum to see if some of this stuff was possible.

Ron is adding a feature that will allow a discreet page with unique button layout for each preset. Can that be accomplished on the LF. Back when I asked it didn't appear possible.

Midi clock? RJM is reportedly working on midi clock slave and master, in and out etc.


voes said:
I have the LF+ Pro+ and I'm a huge fan of it.

I never used a Mastermind GT, but looking at the videos and the manual, it seems to me that the LF+ has more possibilities.

It has 24 buttons (2 more than GT). Each button can have 2 functions, holding the button more than 0.5 second (adjustable) you access the second function. So you can easily state that you have 48 commands available.

Each IA-button can have 20 commands ON and 20 commands OFF (10 on the GT).

Totally compatible with the Axe-Fx: IA-states, names, scenes, tuner, tap-tempo, ...

Like the GT you have pages, but on the GT only 16, the LF+ 60 (but I admit who needs more than 16).

Aside the 2 functions per button, the LF+ outclasses the GT with the huge amount of 45 different commands.
MIDI Command (program change, control change, note on/off, ....)
Auto- Tap-Tempo
Change Page
Change IA-Map
Change Song
Delay (ms)
Mod EXP MIDI #
Resend Current EXP
Send Exp Value
Change Exp IA trigger
Mod EXP CC#
EXP Slot 2 CC#
EXP Slot 2 Invert
EXP Slot 2 MIDI
External Dev Sync
Force IA Color Change
Toggle Page Function #1/#2
Go Global
G-Tuner
IA OFF Trig
IA ON Trig
IA Resend
IA Toggle
IF IA is ON, Stop
IF IA is OFF, Stop
IF IA is ON, Skip
IF IA is OFF, Skip
IF Processing Trigger, Skip
Last Page
Last Preset
Activate MTC
Preset Trigger
Recall Stored Preset
Recall Stored Song #
Resend Initial IA-Initial States
Set color
Set Status #1 LED CLR
Step
Store Preset
Store Current Song #
Stop
Sysex Send
System Snapshot Restore
System SnapShot Store
Trigger 1st Bank Preset


​
It's probably a little harder to program due all the possibilities, but you can make it as easy as you want. Excellent editor is included.

And above all, it's $600 cheaper.

Of course this is all IMHO and YMMV.
Click to expand...
 
voes said:
It's probably a little harder to program due all the possibilities, but you can make it as easy as you want. Excellent editor is included.

And above all, it's $600 cheaper.

Of course this is all IMHO and YMMV.
Click to expand...

Yeah, programming the RJM is a breeze with editor or on hardware. Biggest downside to LF+Pro+ is availability. I was on wait list forever and never got any messages. They seem to be forever backing up. RJM seemed more responsive and the new features take it to next level in my mind, so I ordered and got it in days rather than months and months on wait list.

I hope FAMC gets their ducks in a row because their stuff looks very cool. I wil keep an eye out on the Liquid Router and if I ever go nuts and build this whacky rig I have in my mind will likely get a liquid router.
 
toasterdude said:
Ron is adding a feature that will allow a discreet page with unique button layout for each preset. Can that be accomplished on the LF. Back when I asked it didn't appear possible.
Click to expand...

Sure, you can connect any page to a preset. Only restriction is that you only have 60 pages
 
And that's where the Gordius excels.
No limits. You don't need pages. You can assign different functions to each switch or Direct banks for each preset.
If you're reusing that same layout you can store it in a macro.
It's a lot like OO programming.
But at the same time it's also it's weakness.
For this to work optimally, you need LCD's per footswitch or have a gigantic brain with pornographic memory.
Oops, I meant photographic memory :mad:
 
voes said:
Sure, you can connect any page to a preset. Only restriction is that you only have 60 pages
Click to expand...


Right, that was the last I had seen on their forums. RJM is going to have an override page for each of the 384 presets. That means 15 global pages and each preset can use one of the globals or have it's own page layout. This was huge for me and the reason I ordered from RJM.
 
I hope to cover as much ground as possible with just the Axe II, but if I find myself needing additional things, I will add them... So I don't know at this point.

Is the Mastermind GT's compatibility/support up-to-date with all the current Axe-Fx II features, such as Scenes?

voes said:
I have the LF+ Pro+ and I'm a huge fan of it.

I never used a Mastermind GT, but looking at the videos and the manual, it seems to me that the LF+ has more possibilities.

It has 24 buttons (2 more than GT). Each button can have 2 functions, holding the button more than 0.5 second (adjustable) you access the second function. So you can easily state that you have 48 commands available.

Each IA-button can have 20 commands ON and 20 commands OFF (10 on the GT).

Totally compatible with the Axe-Fx: IA-states, names, scenes, tuner, tap-tempo, ...

Like the GT you have pages, but on the GT only 16, the LF+ 60 (but I admit who needs more than 16).

Aside the 2 functions per button, the LF+ outclasses the GT with the huge amount of 45 different commands.
MIDI Command (program change, control change, note on/off, ....)
Auto- Tap-Tempo
Change Page
Change IA-Map
Change Song
Delay (ms)
Mod EXP MIDI #
Resend Current EXP
Send Exp Value
Change Exp IA trigger
Mod EXP CC#
EXP Slot 2 CC#
EXP Slot 2 Invert
EXP Slot 2 MIDI
External Dev Sync
Force IA Color Change
Toggle Page Function #1/#2
Go Global
G-Tuner
IA OFF Trig
IA ON Trig
IA Resend
IA Toggle
IF IA is ON, Stop
IF IA is OFF, Stop
IF IA is ON, Skip
IF IA is OFF, Skip
IF Processing Trigger, Skip
Last Page
Last Preset
Activate MTC
Preset Trigger
Recall Stored Preset
Recall Stored Song #
Resend Initial IA-Initial States
Set color
Set Status #1 LED CLR
Step
Store Preset
Store Current Song #
Stop
Sysex Send
System Snapshot Restore
System SnapShot Store
Trigger 1st Bank Preset


​
It's probably a little harder to program due all the possibilities, but you can make it as easy as you want. Excellent editor is included.

And above all, it's $600 cheaper.

Of course this is all IMHO and YMMV.
Click to expand...

Can't the buttons on the GT have more than one function?

"Each IA-button can have 20 commands ON and 20 commands OFF (10 on the GT)." <<< What does this mean?

I don't understand what a lot of those functions mean that you listed. Just FYI, I've never owned a MIDI foot controller before, so there's a lot of terminology I'm still not familiar with.
 
Action Jackson said:
I hope to cover as much ground as possible with just the Axe II, but if I find myself needing additional things, I will add them... So I don't know at this point.

Is the Mastermind GT's compatibility/support up-to-date with all the current Axe-Fx II features, such as Scenes?
Click to expand...

I can't comment on that since I don't own a MJT, but reading the manual it can not support scenes at the moment. notice that most manuals on new products are out to date

Can't the buttons on the GT have more than one function?

"Each IA-button can have 20 commands ON and 20 commands OFF (10 on the GT)." <<< What does this mean?
Click to expand...

MJT can have 10 commands which is a lot. to compare, MFC101 can have 2 commands.
 
The MMGT most definitely supports scenes. There was a bug when setting up scenes in the beta version of the editor but it is brain dead easy to set up on the GT. Also that bug has reportedly been squashed as well. I didn't check as I have scenes working fine on my GT.

The GT can have 10 commands per IA, which is not as much as the LF and I guess some others but I can't think of a scenario where I would need 10, let alone more than 10. Right now I am controlling an Axe II, POD HD Pro and Adrenalinn III. Since Axe can turn on multiple effects via scenes, and POD can assign muliple effects or functions to one of it's FS, which are available as a single IA or CC on the RJM, the most I use right now are two.

Also as on most FC the actual preset buttons can send PC commands to up to 16 different devices at once. Hmmm. . .actually 16 is the limit if each device is on it's own midi channel. If you put multiple Axes on same midi channel you can have more than 16 devices.
 
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