Review/Comparison: XiTone 1x12 Wedge+Matrix GT800FX vs RCF NX12SMA

Thomas-Hawk

Thomas-Hawk

Power User
First of all, a disclaimer: for anyone that has read some of my posts, you know that I'm a huge Matrix fan, supporter, and very satisfied customer. The
level of customer service and communication I received from Matt when I purchased my GT800FX power amp a year ago was absolutely superb. I feel that
Matrix is a very customer-focused company, and there are quite a few forumites that would agree with my opinion of them. I also feel the same way about
Mick Farlow with XiTone Cabs. The level of communication I received from Mick during the initial discussions of what I wanted in a FRFR solution was
fantastic, and the responsiveness from him even months after the sale has been top notch. I feel both of these companies are "doing it right". I am not
recieving any compensation in any form from either of them for this review/comparison. End disclaimer. ;)

I purchased my XiTone 1x12 wedge (new, non ported version) passive cabs from Mick a couple of months ago. Until recently, I've had nothing to compare
them to, other than my past attempts to go FRFR. I must admit that at first, I wasn't digging the FRFR thing, and struggled a lot with it. I'm a guitar cab guy,
and always felt my real cab sounded so much better than any FRFR solution I had tried in the past, including the EV Live-X 12" powered monitor, and KRK Rokit RP8 G2 studio monitors. I figured it was just my monitors, and that if I got a real FRFR solution, that would make the difference. Well, when I received the XiTone wedges, I
was still initially disappointed. I could tell the XiTones sounded much better than the EVs and my Rokits, but I still wasn't digging FRFR as much as my
real cab. Until... I bought a Shure SM57, and shot some IRs of my beloved Avatar Vintage semi-open back 2x12 cab with British V30s. YESSSSS! I finally
got the sound of my cab using FRFR! Totally digging it, but still really didn't know how good the XiTone wedge was until I got the chance to meet up
with another local Axe-Fx II user (tone pilgrim) who has the RCF NX12SMA.

We compared the RCF with the XiTone wedge side-by-side. Physically, the XiTone isn't as wide as the RCF, but is a bit taller. Depth front to back was
about the same. Weight was suprisingly close, with the RCF weighing about 3-5 lbs. heavier, due to the onboard power amp. If the RCF was passive, I
think they would probably weigh the same, or if my XiTone had the onboard Matrix GM50 power amp option, they'd probably weigh out very close. The handle
on the XiTone was definitely more comfortable to use, as others on the forum have expressed the issues with the handle on the RCF, and I found their complaints to be warranted.

For our sound comparisons, we ran tone pilgrim's Axe outputs like this: Output 1, left--->Matrix GT800FX--->XiTone 1x12 wedge, Output 1, right--->RCF.
To be sure each channel had the same sound, we set his Axe Output 1 Mode to COPY L->R on the Audio tab of the I/O settings.

My first reaction was, "Wow, they sound VERY similar!" and tone pilgrim agreed. We tried a few different presets and settings. The more we fiddled around,
the more we could begin to detect some differences. Both tone pilgrim and I agreed that the RCF sounded more "hi-fi", with more highs and a bit more
lows. The XiTone sounded more "guitar cab like", with stronger mids, and a bit less highs. Being a guitar cab kind of guy, I definitely preferred the
sound of the XiTone wedge/Matrix combo over the RCF. I felt it was more true and accurate of a real amp and cab... more "flat" if you will. tone
pilgrim preferred the "hi-fi" sound of the RCF more. I also felt the dispersion of the XiTone wedge was wider than the RCF, but not by a huge amount.
We both felt that the XiTone wedge and RCF sounded great.

Now, for the major benefit (IMO, of course) part of my review/comparison: for guys that want to be able to use real guitar cabs as well as FRFR
depending upon situation, mood, etc., and for less money than what a RCF NX12SMA costs (Mike Pyle's price on the RCF narrows the cost gap), you can get a
new Matrix GT800Fx AND a new XiTone 1x12 wedge and have the ULTIMATE in flexibility, and killer tone! Plus the fact that the Matrix has two channels, so
if you should decide to get another XiTone wedge, or perhaps run your guitar cab in stereo, you have that option at your disposal as well.

Mick with XiTone is currently selling the 1x12 passive wedge with the Eminence Beta 12CX/ASD-1001 w/crossover package for $459, and for a limited time is
offering FREE shipping. Matrix is currently selling the GT800FX for 385 British Pounds, which at the current exchange rate equals $605.18 US Dollars.

Again, I have no affiliations with XiTone or Matrix, and am not receiving any gifts, money, etc. from either of them. I'm just a very, very happy
customer of both companies, and feel their level of customer service as well as the quality of their products is simply top notch.

So, in conclusion... for guys that want the flexibility to use real guitar cabs AND FRFR (not at the same time!), I feel that the two products paired together at a minimum match the level of performance of the RCF NX12SMA, and IMO best it, while at the same time providing the level of flexibility well above what the RCF (or any other
powered FRFR monitor for that matter) can offer, and taking into account the cost, I simply feel the combination of the XiTone 1x12 passive wedge and the
Matrix GT800FX cannot be beaten.

I hope this review/comparison is helpful to others out there, and if there are any questions, or need for clarification on anything presented here,
please let me know! I also want to thank tone pilgrim for having me over to his home/studio, and for the opportunity to do this comparison. Perhaps he
will add some comments to this review as well.


Regards,
Tom
 
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thanks for the review.
I while back someone had suggested to me (for the life of me I can't remember who it was though)
to drop the left most and the right most sliders on my global EQ and very slightly bump the 2 middle sliders up just a hair
with the RCF and it would get me a more "guitar cab" sound and feel. He was right on the money, those 2 frequencies would not be
present with a guitar cab so removing then gets rid of some of that "hifi" that you heard. It's made and night and day difference
for me.
Isn't Mick doing something "new" as well now (I thought I heard mentioned some re desgn or update to his cabs?)
Nice to know all of these FRFR vendors are upping their game :)
more win for us!!
 
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kmanick said:
thanks for the review.
I while back someone had suggested to me (for the life of me I can't remember who it was though)
to drop the left most and the right most sliders on my global EQ and very slightly bump the 2 middle sliders up just a hair
with the RCF and it would ge me a more "guitar cab" sound and feel. He was right on the money, those 2 frequencies would not be
present with a guitar cab so removing then gets rid of some of that "hifi" that you heard. It's made and night and day difference
for me.
Isn't Mick doing something "new" as well now (I thought I heard mentioned some re desgn or update to his cabs?)
Nice to know all of these FRFR vendors are upping their game :)
more win for us!!
Click to expand...

kmanick,

Exactly. tone pilgrim and I both felt that some slight eq adjusting in the Axe could make the RCF sound like the XiTone, and vice versa.

And, yes... Mick has been doing some new things with his wedges, mainly redesigning the size of the cab a bit, and eliminating the ports. There are a few other things too that I think he's modified, but I honestly don't know enough about those mods to comment confidently on. Perhaps he'll chime in on this post and provide an update.

The two main points I wanted to make with this review/comparison are:

  • The XiTone 1x12 wedge sounds as good as (IMO, a bit better) the RCF.
  • The XiTone 1x12 wedge coupled with the Matrix GT800FX offers the same or better performance as the RCF for a FRFR solution for less money, but with the major benefit of being able to use the Matrix with real guitar cabs if desired, and also go stereo if desired, either using a stereo guitar cab, or adding a second XiTone 1x12 wedge.
 
oh one thing I did forget to ask , did you get a chnce to open them up anywhere near close to full volume?
I haven't had a chance to get mine open more than a little more than 1/2 way as it's way too freaking loud for me to deal with in my house at that volume.
is the Matrix power amp pushing the same type of wattage that the RCF wedge does?
I could see myself working with any of these solutions and maybe even mixing a different wedge with my RCF and going stereo.
 
kmanick said:
oh one thing I did forget to ask , did you get a chnce to open them up anywhere near close to full volume?
I haven't had a chance to get mine open more than a little more than 1/2 way as it's way too freaking loud for me to deal with in my house at that volume.
is the Matrix power amp pushing the same type of wattage that the RCF wedge does?
I could see myself working with any of these solutions and maybe even mixing a different wedge with my RCF and going stereo.
Click to expand...

No, we didn't get a chance to really crank 'em up. We had them louder than "bedroom" level, but no where near what they're capable of.

IIRC, the RCF is rated at 700W? Don't know if that's peak or RMS, but I know the GT800FX will do 800W into 8 ohms in bridged mode. In stereo mode, it does 260W into 8 ohms per channel. I've used my GT800FX in stereo mode with my Avatar 2x12, which has 8 ohm V30s when jamming with a couple of loud drummers, and I could EASILY drown them out. :mrgreen
 
I will do a review of my xitone when it gets here, Mick is doing some experiments with the one he is doing for me.
 
It was great fun hanging out with Tom again and playing a bunch of different patches through a bunch of different gear. For anyone who hasn't met him, Tom is a fantastic guy and a great player.

I would personally be hesitant to use the word 'hi-fi' to refer to the RCF as that word has always had a negative connotation to me and I don't think either one of us felt there was a negative to either cabinet. My initial impression was that Tom's XiTone had slightly boosted mids which gave it more of the 'bark' of a Marshall cabinet to my ears. We agreed that the reality is probably that my RCF has some subtle boosting in the highs and lows, not that his was boosted in the mids. As an avid vintage Fender and Vox fan, I preferred my RCF. It had more jangle to me and was subtly sweeter to my tastes. But I agree with Tom that his XiTone sounded more like a guitar cab. With a little skill both cabinets could be made to sound pretty similar to each other. In fact, like Tom pointed out, the difference were surprisingly minute.

What I really took away from the meet up, besides a few of Tom's chewy Ozzy licks, was that a power amp with a passive speaker is going to better fit the needs of my small studio. He won me over to the flexibility of his Power Amp + Passive Cab solution. With the power amp I could power both my FRFR for the Axe and my studio's Near Field Reference monitors. So for me on a budget, that flexibility is a more economical route and I'm pursuing selling my RCF to go down that road.

Thanks again for the great write up, Tom. Let's get together again soon.
 
Was just remember how the last time we met, we were both on Version 6 and the differences between Tom's Avatar cabinet and my RCF were pretty significant. Now, with both of us on Version 9, and especially with Tom's IR, it seems like the difference is a LOT less. What do you think Tom?
 
tone pilgrim said:
Was just remember how the last time we met, we were both on Version 6 and the differences between Tom's Avatar cabinet and my RCF were pretty significant. Now, with both of us on Version 9, and especially with Tom's IR, it seems like the difference is a LOT less. What do you think Tom?
Click to expand...

That's really cool :) I'm using an Ultra (still... I know, get a II!) with my new Matrix Q12a powered cab (used to use a GT800FX into a cab) and sounds great, the cab is outstanding, but I'm not quite getting where I want to be. Part of the reason I still haven't gotten a II is because I always used a guitar cab and I think with the Ultra, a regular cab makes it sound plenty "real", you just lose a ton of versatility. Now going FRFR, I am realizing I need a II and I've always heard that it sounded "a bit better" or whatever, but I'm hoping/guessing that with 7.0 and beyond, it's significantly better sounding. Hopefully a big part of that difference is the cab modeling and it will be VERY realistic through my Matrix powered FRFR solution when I finally make the jump to the Axe II in the next week or two.

Thanks for the review on the XiTone, as I've always been interested and have been considering on to add as an extension cab with my Matrix Q12a (btw, I wonder what speakers the Q12a uses. I assume they're not made by Matrix and maybe they're the same Eminences). Really cool to hear that the latest Axe firmware is closing the gap so much.
 
Thomas-Hawk said:
No, the XiTone is a full range speaker. Gotta use cab sims. Without 'em, they sound like a can of bees, just like any other good FRFR speaker. :)
Click to expand...



I understand what you meant now, thanks for clarifying.


I wonder if using the Xitone with the Beta 12LTA would result in even more of a natural guitar sound, since that speaker doesn't go quite as high as the Beta 12CX/ASD-1001 w/crossover. Either way, I see this setup as superior because of the lack of a crossover - no internal components to worry about.
 
XiTone cabs, best bang for the money period. I have tried them all (FRFR). And dont forget is a custom shop also.
 
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Thomas-Hawk said:
First of all, a disclaimer: for anyone that has read some of my posts, you know that I'm a huge Matrix fan, supporter, and very satisfied customer. The
level of customer service and communication I received from Matt when I purchased my GT800FX power amp a year ago was absolutely superb. I feel that
Matrix is a very customer-focused company, and there are quite a few forumites that would agree with my opinion of them. I also feel the same way about
Mick Farlow with XiTone Cabs. The level of communication I received from Mick during the initial discussions of what I wanted in a FRFR solution was
fantastic, and the responsiveness from him even months after the sale has been top notch. I feel both of these companies are "doing it right". I am not
recieving any compensation in any form from either of them for this review/comparison. End disclaimer. ;)

I purchased my XiTone 1x12 wedge (new, non ported version) passive cabs from Mick a couple of months ago. Until recently, I've had nothing to compare
them to, other than my past attempts to go FRFR. I must admit that at first, I wasn't digging the FRFR thing, and struggled a lot with it. I'm a guitar cab guy,
and always felt my real cab sounded so much better than any FRFR solution I had tried in the past, including the EV Live-X 12" powered monitor, and KRK Rokit RP8 G2 studio monitors. I figured it was just my monitors, and that if I got a real FRFR solution, that would make the difference. Well, when I received the XiTone wedges, I
was still initially disappointed. I could tell the XiTones sounded much better than the EVs and my Rokits, but I still wasn't digging FRFR as much as my
real cab. Until... I bought a Shure SM57, and shot some IRs of my beloved Avatar Vintage semi-open back 2x12 cab with British V30s. YESSSSS! I finally
got the sound of my cab using FRFR! Totally digging it, but still really didn't know how good the XiTone wedge was until I got the chance to meet up
with another local Axe-Fx II user (tone pilgrim) who has the RCF NX12SMA.

We compared the RCF with the XiTone wedge side-by-side. Physically, the XiTone isn't as wide as the RCF, but is a bit taller. Depth front to back was
about the same. Weight was suprisingly close, with the RCF weighing about 3-5 lbs. heavier, due to the onboard power amp. If the RCF was passive, I
think they would probably weigh the same, or if my XiTone had the onboard Matrix GM50 power amp option, they'd probably weigh out very close. The handle
on the XiTone was definitely more comfortable to use, as others on the forum have expressed the issues with the handle on the RCF, and I found their complaints to be warranted.

For our sound comparisons, we ran tone pilgrim's Axe outputs like this: Output 1, left--->Matrix GT800FX--->XiTone 1x12 wedge, Output 1, right--->RCF.
To be sure each channel had the same sound, we set his Axe Output 1 Mode to COPY L->R on the Audio tab of the I/O settings.

My first reaction was, "Wow, they sound VERY similar!" and tone pilgrim agreed. We tried a few different presets and settings. The more we fiddled around,
the more we could begin to detect some differences. Both tone pilgrim and I agreed that the RCF sounded more "hi-fi", with more highs and a bit more
lows. The XiTone sounded more "guitar cab like", with stronger mids, and a bit less highs. Being a guitar cab kind of guy, I definitely preferred the
sound of the XiTone wedge/Matrix combo over the RCF. I felt it was more true and accurate of a real amp and cab... more "flat" if you will. tone
pilgrim preferred the "hi-fi" sound of the RCF more. I also felt the dispersion of the XiTone wedge was wider than the RCF, but not by a huge amount.
We both felt that the XiTone wedge and RCF sounded great.

Now, for the major benefit (IMO, of course) part of my review/comparison: for guys that want to be able to use real guitar cabs as well as FRFR
depending upon situation, mood, etc., and for less money than what a RCF NX12SMA costs (Mike Pyle's price on the RCF narrows the cost gap), you can get a
new Matrix GT800Fx AND a new XiTone 1x12 wedge and have the ULTIMATE in flexibility, and killer tone! Plus the fact that the Matrix has two channels, so
if you should decide to get another XiTone wedge, or perhaps run your guitar cab in stereo, you have that option at your disposal as well.

Mick with XiTone is currently selling the 1x12 passive wedge with the Eminence Beta 12CX/ASD-1001 w/crossover package for $459, and for a limited time is
offering FREE shipping. Matrix is currently selling the GT800FX for 385 British Pounds, which at the current exchange rate equals $605.18 US Dollars.

Again, I have no affiliations with XiTone or Matrix, and am not receiving any gifts, money, etc. from either of them. I'm just a very, very happy
customer of both companies, and feel their level of customer service as well as the quality of their products is simply top notch.

So, in conclusion... for guys that want the flexibility to use real guitar cabs AND FRFR (not at the same time!), I feel that the two products paired together at a minimum match the level of performance of the RCF NX12SMA, and IMO best it, while at the same time providing the level of flexibility well above what the RCF (or any other
powered FRFR monitor for that matter) can offer, and taking into account the cost, I simply feel the combination of the XiTone 1x12 passive wedge and the
Matrix GT800FX cannot be beaten.

I hope this review/comparison is helpful to others out there, and if there are any questions, or need for clarification on anything presented here,
please let me know! I also want to thank tone pilgrim for having me over to his home/studio, and for the opportunity to do this comparison. Perhaps he
will add some comments to this review as well.


Regards,
Tom
Click to expand...

Thanks Thomas-Hawk for your review and comments about your experiences! I really appreciate it. Thanks also Tone Pilgram for hooking up with Thomas-Hawk and sharing your thoughts as well.

kmanick said:
thanks for the review.
I while back someone had suggested to me (for the life of me I can't remember who it was though)
to drop the left most and the right most sliders on my global EQ and very slightly bump the 2 middle sliders up just a hair
with the RCF and it would get me a more "guitar cab" sound and feel. He was right on the money, those 2 frequencies would not be
present with a guitar cab so removing then gets rid of some of that "hifi" that you heard. It's made and night and day difference
for me.
Isn't Mick doing something "new" as well now (I thought I heard mentioned some re desgn or update to his cabs?)
Nice to know all of these FRFR vendors are upping their game :)
more win for us!!
Click to expand...

Hey kmanick! I got a cab being demo'd in Boston at the moment.. if you want to give it a whirl shoot me a PM.

Also, there have been some enhancements to the cab and crossover. Switches are now available to alter the behavior of the tweeter to be either in phase or out of phase and also a second switch to lift the 3db pad if desired.

DraggAmps said:
That's really cool :) I'm using an Ultra (still... I know, get a II!) with my new Matrix Q12a powered cab (used to use a GT800FX into a cab) and sounds great, the cab is outstanding, but I'm not quite getting where I want to be. Part of the reason I still haven't gotten a II is because I always used a guitar cab and I think with the Ultra, a regular cab makes it sound plenty "real", you just lose a ton of versatility. Now going FRFR, I am realizing I need a II and I've always heard that it sounded "a bit better" or whatever, but I'm hoping/guessing that with 7.0 and beyond, it's significantly better sounding. Hopefully a big part of that difference is the cab modeling and it will be VERY realistic through my Matrix powered FRFR solution when I finally make the jump to the Axe II in the next week or two.

Thanks for the review on the XiTone, as I've always been interested and have been considering on to add as an extension cab with my Matrix Q12a (btw, I wonder what speakers the Q12a uses. I assume they're not made by Matrix and maybe they're the same Eminences). Really cool to hear that the latest Axe firmware is closing the gap so much.
Click to expand...

Matrix is using a Celestion for thier Coax I believe. I forget the exact model number though.

MotherSea said:
I understand what you meant now, thanks for clarifying.


I wonder if using the Xitone with the Beta 12LTA would result in even more of a natural guitar sound, since that speaker doesn't go quite as high as the Beta 12CX/ASD-1001 w/crossover. Either way, I see this setup as superior because of the lack of a crossover - no internal components to worry about.
Click to expand...

The 12LTA will sound really close to the 12CX/ASD1001 combo with the noted loss of high end after 8k-9k.

Galo said:
XiTone cabs, best bang for the money period. I have tried them all. And dont forget is a custom shop also.
Click to expand...

Thanks Galo... and about that custom shop.... got something coming up that will look so awesome as a custom addon to the cabs... won't affect the tone at all of course, but will be a most awesome addition to any cab at an alarmingly affordable price as well, considering the nature of the customization..... stay tuned....
 
DraggAmps said:
That's really cool :) I'm using an Ultra (still... I know, get a II!) with my new Matrix Q12a powered cab (used to use a GT800FX into a cab) and sounds great, the cab is outstanding, but I'm not quite getting where I want to be. Part of the reason I still haven't gotten a II is because I always used a guitar cab and I think with the Ultra, a regular cab makes it sound plenty "real", you just lose a ton of versatility. Now going FRFR, I am realizing I need a II and I've always heard that it sounded "a bit better" or whatever, but I'm hoping/guessing that with 7.0 and beyond, it's significantly better sounding. Hopefully a big part of that difference is the cab modeling and it will be VERY realistic through my Matrix powered FRFR solution when I finally make the jump to the Axe II in the next week or two.
Click to expand...

I started out on the Axe II but I know Tom was an Ultra user. He could probably comment more on the difference you'd hear with an Axe II through that system as opposed to your Ultra. If the firmware updates on the Axe II are any indication of the quality improvement, I'd guess you'd be pretty happy with a II.;)
 
MicFarlow said:
Hey kmanick! I got a cab being demo'd in Boston at the moment.. if you want to give it a whirl shoot me a PM.
Click to expand...

And this would be me....

Tonight I will be A/B'ing my RCF nx12ma to Mick's 1x12 powered wedge.....I CAN'T WAIT TO GET OUT OF WORK!!

Nick, if you want to swing by at all while I have the wedge...PM me.
 
tone pilgrim said:
It was great fun hanging out with Tom again and playing a bunch of different patches through a bunch of different gear. For anyone who hasn't met him, Tom is a fantastic guy and a great player.

I would personally be hesitant to use the word 'hi-fi' to refer to the RCF as that word has always had a negative connotation to me and I don't think either one of us felt there was a negative to either cabinet. My initial impression was that Tom's XiTone had slightly boosted mids which gave it more of the 'bark' of a Marshall cabinet to my ears. We agreed that the reality is probably that my RCF has some subtle boosting in the highs and lows, not that his was boosted in the mids. As an avid vintage Fender and Vox fan, I preferred my RCF. It had more jangle to me and was subtly sweeter to my tastes. But I agree with Tom that his XiTone sounded more like a guitar cab. With a little skill both cabinets could be made to sound pretty similar to each other. In fact, like Tom pointed out, the difference were surprisingly minute.

What I really took away from the meet up, besides a few of Tom's chewy Ozzy licks, was that a power amp with a passive speaker is going to better fit the needs of my small studio. He won me over to the flexibility of his Power Amp + Passive Cab solution. With the power amp I could power both my FRFR for the Axe and my studio's Near Field Reference monitors. So for me on a budget, that flexibility is a more economical route and I'm pursuing selling my RCF to go down that road.

Thanks again for the great write up, Tom. Let's get together again soon.
Click to expand...

Hey, tp, it was a great time, and just like the first jam session, the time really flew by. Thanks for the kind words... that means a lot coming a guy who teaches guitar for a living! :D

I agree... "hi-fi" perhaps isn't the best word, just as "scooped" really isn't either. Subtle boosting of the highs and lows pretty much nails it to me. Which is something a lot of people like.

I'm glad you dug my setup. I really think it's the best of both worlds, using the Matrix power amp. A lot of flexibility there. Whereas I use it to power my real cab, or my XiTone wedge FRFR, you'll use it to power your FRFR monitors, and passive studio monitors. Having the amp separate from your speaker solution really opens up a lot of options.

Also... anyone looking to score a RCF NX12SMA, tone pilgrim's is in pristine condition. I could tell he takes great care of his equipment, and he's a down to Earth, honest person. I would not hesitate for a moment to buy something from him.

Was just remember how the last time we met, we were both on Version 6 and the differences between Tom's Avatar cabinet and my RCF were pretty significant. Now, with both of us on Version 9, and especially with Tom's IR, it seems like the difference is a LOT less. What do you think Tom?
Click to expand...

I would definitely agree with this. Especially being a guitar cab "snob", and former hater of FRFR. :mrgreen
 
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MotherSea said:
I understand what you meant now, thanks for clarifying.


I wonder if using the Xitone with the Beta 12LTA would result in even more of a natural guitar sound, since that speaker doesn't go quite as high as the Beta 12CX/ASD-1001 w/crossover. Either way, I see this setup as superior because of the lack of a crossover - no internal components to worry about.
Click to expand...

I actually considered going with the Beta 12LTA, but decided to go with the Beta 12CX/ASD-1001 w/crossover route, just in case I wanted to use the wedges for full range music playback, etc. If you were to only use the XiTone wedge with guitar, the Beta 12LTA might work great for you!
 
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