Reverb in Amp Block ? - Any benefit soundwise?

unFILTERed

Power User
If my memory serves me right back in time there were some discussion why we can't get the exact reverb sound of amps which come with a plate or spring reverb. i kinda remember there were some CPU issues about baking the reverb in the right spot in Amp block.

Would this be possible since we have so much more CPU power and would it even make sense sound wise?

It's been a while i didn't play an amp with reverb, my ac15 h1tv doesn't have reverb. So i am even not sure, maybe it's possible to get the same feel, sound with current state of FW.
 
I'd think the solution would be to emulate amp style reverb units inside of the reverb block. Seems like a waste of resources to bake them into the amp block
 
I'd think the solution would be to emulate amp style reverb units inside of the reverb block. Seems like a waste of resources to bake them into the amp block

If you mean recources as "work, programming time"...maybe, if you mean resources as CPU...disabling, not using it should give you the same CPU usage.

But still my question here is: If there was a reverb inside the amp block would it sound more like the reverb of, let's say a Fender Twin Reverb or a Vox AC30? Just like the Tremolo in Amp block; sounds different/better than the Tremolo Block.
 
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The Bias trem sounds different (and I think better) because its adjusting the bias of the power tubes to achieve its amplitude modulation. It has to be in the amp block to work. Other trems, like an opto-trem, like on a 65 Deluxe, can be emulated by a LFO with variable waveform pretty well, and that is why that style trem can be done with an external block. There are also harmonic trem's which the Axe doesn't emulate but you can combine two filter blocks and achieve that effect as well.

I don't think there is anything magical about the amp block itself, its just about where the trem or reverb are in the signal chain, but you can move stuff around in the Axe and listen if you like trem into reverb or vice versa, or before the amp block etc
 
The Bias trem sounds different (and I think better) because its adjusting the bias of the power tubes to achieve its amplitude modulation. It has to be in the amp block to work. Other trems, like an opto-trem, like on a 65 Deluxe, can be emulated by a LFO with variable waveform pretty well, and that is why that style trem can be done with an external block. There are also harmonic trem's which the Axe doesn't emulate but you can combine two filter blocks and achieve that effect as well.

I don't think there is anything magical about the amp block itself, its just about where the trem or reverb are in the signal chain, but you can move stuff around in the Axe and listen if you like trem into reverb or vice versa, or before the amp block etc

what if it makes a difference when the reverb is in between preamp and power amp?
 
If my memory serves me right back in time there were some discussion why we can't get the exact reverb sound of amps which come with a plate or spring reverb. i kinda remember there were some CPU issues about baking the reverb in the right spot in Amp block.

Would this be possible since we have so much more CPU power and would it even make sense sound wise?

It's been a while i didn't play an amp with reverb, my ac15 h1tv doesn't have reverb. So i am even not sure, maybe it's possible to get the same feel, sound with current state of FW.
Well... It would only be Spring type. No other reverb is in an amp (except maybe a digital one in some new amps). Definitely not a plate...
 
Well... It would only be Spring type. No other reverb is in an amp (except maybe a digital one in some new amps). Definitely not a plate...

i think there is a boutique amp from italy with plate reverb. trying to remember the name and youtube link....if i find i will share. and no its not digital.
 
i think there is a boutique amp from italy with plate reverb. trying to remember the name and youtube link....if i find i will share. and no its not digital.
That would probably be pretty unique, since as far as I am aware, plate reverbs are large.

From Wikipedia:

A plate reverb system uses an electromechanical transducer, similar to the driver in a loudspeaker, to create vibrations in a large plate of sheet metal. The plate’s motion is picked up by one or more contact microphones whose output is an audio signal which may be added to the original "dry" signal. In the late 1950s, Elektro-Mess-Technik (EMT) introduced the EMT 140;[7] a 600-pound (270 kg) model popular in recording studios, contributing to many hit records such as Beatles and Pink Floyd albums recorded at Abbey Road Studios in the 1960s, and others recorded by Bill Porter in Nashville's RCA Studio B.[citation needed] Early units had one pickup for mono output, and later models featured two pickups for stereo use. The reverb time can be adjusted by a damping pad, made from framed acoustic tiles. The closer the damping pad, the shorter the reverb time. However, the pad never touches the plate. Some units also featured a remote control.
 
what if it makes a difference when the reverb is in between preamp and power amp?

You could run two amp blocks with the reverb in between, setting the sag to zero on the first one, but I don't think its really going to make any real difference, reason being, the power amp isn't contributing too much tone or saturation on cleaner style amps, and one probably isn't running a really wet spring reverb with a really dirty or driven amp. At least I don't, or in the event I like that type of tone, I just put the reverb block before the amp block, ala running the old outboard Fender reverb tanks.
 
That would probably be pretty unique, since as far as I am aware, plate reverbs are large.


This is a typically-sized plate reverb. Note the steel bars attached so two people can lift it. :)

pluto-plate.jpg
 
Just pull up a Reverb block and select a Spring type. Mix is your one knob. :)

Than why did they make a tremolo in the amp? You can also use the tremolo block. That's the same thing as using a reverb block.
 
Than why did they make a tremolo in the amp? You can also use the tremolo block. That's the same thing as using a reverb block.

As explained above, the bias trem in the amp block is a type of tremolo that can't be replicated without it interacting with the amp sim. No such limitations for most reverbs. I suppose the amp block could use some sort of effects loop simulation that allowed putting other fx blocks between the pre- and poweramp like on a normal amp but I imagine it would be pretty annoying to create in terms of UI with very little benefit.
 
Exactly. I use Spring in my main presets and adjust only Mix and maybe Time.

@Rex this was your response to another user in 2013 about getting an authentic vintage fender reverb: “The most authentic spot would be betweent he preamp and power amp, but we don't have access to that location in the Axe-Fx”

I remember reading much more on this but can’t find the posts. I might be wrong but i feel like i remember Cliff saying it needs to be in the amp block to nail it but in Axe Fx 2 it wasn’t possible for some reason. Probably CPU...but still i am not fully sure about this, my apologies if i am carrying over wrong information.
 
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@Rex this was your response to another user in 2013 about getting an authentic vintage fender reverb: “The most authentic spot would be betweent he preamp and power amp, but we don't have access to that location in the Axe-Fx”

I remember reading much more on this but can’t find the posts. I might be wrong but i feel like i remember Cliff saying it needs to be in the amp block to nail it but in Axe Fx 2 it wasn’t possible for some reason. Probably CPU...but still i am not fully sure about this, my apologies if i am carrying over wrong information.
Many years ago, Cliff said that separating the preamp and power amp would expose proprietary information.
 
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