Reverb Before Amp Block & Signal Chain Question

[MikeYaru]

Hi Everyone,

I bought an online course called "The complete FM3 master class with Cooper Carter", which has been very helpful in expanding my knowledge with the FM3, creating tones, etc. A quick question came up for me on the section where he was creating an "edge of breakup" tone, similar to those of SRV, Hendrix, etc. When creating tones I usually put the reverb after the amp. However for this tone, he put it before the amp? I guess due to on classic amps like the Fender super reverb having reverb on the actual unit? Is that how it works? I guess I'm not quite clear on the signal chain, as I haven't really been hands on with a lot of amps. Also as a pt 2, the amp is just the tone/power source, and the cabinet is the actual speaker correct? I've been hearing a bit about amp IRs (impulse response), and not quite sure how that plays into everything.

Apologies if any of that is confusing! Any guidance is appreciated.

Thanks,
Mike

 

[Budda]

Hi Mike,

Try the reverb before and after. Use the one you prefer. Nothing more to it .

You are correct that the cab block (which loads the IRs) is the speaker + mic component of the sound.

 

[lqdsnddist]

One method can give amp drive to the reverberated tone, the other reverberates the amp drive. They can sound different but not better or worse. Same thing with a delay, sounds different running a delay into an amp than delaying the sound of the amp.

 

[Rick]

Hi Everyone,

I bought an online course called "The complete FM3 master class with Cooper Carter", which has been very helpful in expanding my knowledge with the FM3, creating tones, etc. A quick question came up for me on the section where he was creating an "edge of breakup" tone, similar to those of SRV, Hendrix, etc. When creating tones I usually put the reverb after the amp. However for this tone, he put it before the amp? I guess due to on classic amps like the Fender super reverb having reverb on the actual unit? Is that how it works? I guess I'm not quite clear on the signal chain, as I haven't really been hands on with a lot of amps. Also as a pt 2, the amp is just the tone/power source, and the cabinet is the actual speaker correct? I've been hearing a bit about amp IRs (impulse response), and not quite sure how that plays into everything.

Apologies if any of that is confusing! Any guidance is appreciated.

Thanks,
Mike

Cooper is a regular and very helpful contributor to the forum here under the name @Cooper Carter ; and I’m sure that he would give you all the thoughts behind his block placements. While everyone here will help you as well, you really should ask him! He’s incredibly knowledgeable on all things Fractal.

One of the beauties of creating tones via the block arrangement is that you can do things that aren’t really possible with a guitar and amp alone in the real world. Many new players don’t realize this! They’ve never (or rarely) played non-digitally and only know the results of modeling technology, while having very little knowledge of how the modeled technology itself works. You might be in that category, and if you are, some of the aspects of sound creation and effects might be foreign to you. That ok, because all that really matters in the end is that you get a good sound. That said, the more you know, the more you’ll be able to predict and interpret what certain actions will produce. Keep asking those questions, and play on non-analog gear when you can… it’ll help make the block arrangements make sense.

As noted above, effects are placed where they sound best. Placing some time-based effects before the amp input can make for a more garbled sound at some settings when amp overdrive interacts, so they are placed after the preamp in a real amplifier to avoid that… often in the effects loop of the amp if it has one. In many cases, the amp has no loop, so there is no choice but to place the effect before the amp. Here’s where the digital experience becomes very different. With a real tube amp, if you put the reverb unit after the power amp section of the amp (plugged it in between the amp and speakers), you would fry it in short order, because the power generated by the amp is way too high for the reverb unit to handle and without the load of a speaker, the amp would burn up too! And there is no way to put a reverb unit after the speakers without outboard gear, such as in a studio. But in the digital world, all of this is possible, and quite simple!

For now, and until you gain an understanding of how these things work in the analog world, it’s best you just focus on this: where you place a block (in relation to other blocks like the amp and cab) sound different. You just need to put them where they sound most like you want them to sound.