RESOLVED! FM3 MIDI Control via Morningstar MC6 Mk II

Sleestak

Sleestak

Power User
Hello friends.

I'm having some quite strange behavior getting my FM3 and MC6 Mk II to communicate. Here is what I did:
  • Assigned the FM3 to MIDI channel 1
  • Assigned the MC6 to MIDI channel 2
  • On the FM3, assigned “Send MIDI PC” to channel 2

My presets in the FM3 start at position 0, and on the MC6 I have the AxeFX Integration setting “Preset Start From” set to 0.

Issue #1 : Incorrect Preset Select Being Sent
It worked briefly as expected. I was able to successfully select a preset by name and then select scenes by name. But then it went to some strange behavior I experienced before. It correctly displays the names of Preset 0 through 5, but if I select Button A, the FM3 goes to the Preset 384. Selecting Button B goes to Preset 385 and so on. I went back to the MC6 and reset the "Preset Start From” setting to 10. It correctly displays the names of presets 10-15, but selecting Button A takes the FM3 to Preset 394 and so on. It’s not sending the correct preset position number, even though it’s reading the preset name correctly from the FM3.

I selected “Disconnect Morningstar MC6” from the menu. Same behavior I turned off “Send MIDI PC” on the FM3. No change in behavior. I performed a factory reset on the MC6 and reprogrammed Bank 1 Button A. Same behavior. Powered everything down and tried again. Same result.

Issue #2 : MIDI Program Change is also off by 384
MIDI Program Changes are also off by 384 positions. When I send MIDI PC 0 to the AxeFX, it goes to Preset 384. Any MIDI PC that is sent will go incorrectly to the Preset 384 positions ahead of what is sent. According the MC6 editor’s MIDI Monitor, the correct message is being sent, but the FM3 is responding by jumping up 384. positions.


Issue #3 : MIDI Control Change is also off by 384
MIDI Control Changes are also off by 384 positions. As above, the MIDI Monitor indicates the correct message is being sent.


Issue #4 : FM3 Tuner Does Not Display
My suspicion here is that the MC6 is sending the wrong MIDI message to the FM3. According to the Activity Monitor, the MC6 is sending the correct message (by name) for the AxeFX Tuner.

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I don’t have any custom MIDI mapping on my FM3. To ensure the FM3 wasn’t the issue, I performed a factory reset. Same problem.

I have watched the MIDI Monitor on the MC6 editor, and several of the messages are not being detected. For instance, in AxeFX Integration mode, is does correctly detect the button press to display the presets (and the names are correct), but when a button is pressed for Preset 0, the FM3 goest to Preset 384. That is an empty preset on my FM3, so there scenes aren’t named, but I can select them from the MC6, and the FM3 goes to the correct scene. If I send MIDI Program Change #10 from the MC6, the FM3 goes to preset 394; again, it’s off by 384 positions.

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I am starting to think it's something with the FM3. I have cleared all of my FM3 presets, reset the system params, and it's still not working correctly.

Suggestions?
 
What is the value of ‘MIDI PC Offset’? p. 96 in the manual.

You might also try the Morningstar forum as there may well be people there that are familiar with integrating the 2 devices.
 
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No MIDI offset on the FM3. I am in touch with Morningstar support as well. Based on my investigation thus far, it seems like the MC6 is sending the correct MIDI information. I can't figure out what is going on with the FM3, which is pretty strange. I'm very familiar with MIDI and have written MIDI utilities. It seems especially weird to me that this communication error is intermittent. I've swapped out the MIDI cables, and done several stages of troubleshooting. Odd stuff, this.
 
Do you have PC Mapping enabled?

Pretty much every time there's a weird midi issue like this that seems to be the culprit ;)
 
Nope. No PC mapping. This was where I started my troubleshooting. I performed factory resets on both units, and checked both units to ensure that nothing was set up incorrectly. The FM3 is responding to all PC changes by adding 384 positions. Very odd.
 
I verified this as well. I haven't got a MIDI message sniffer at the moment, but have ordered a MIDI to USB cable so I can intercept the message being sent from the MC6. The MC6 has a MIDI logger that records the message being sent, and it reports that the correct MIDI message is being transmitted. I need to verify that independently with my computer. If it's sending what it claims to be sending, the issue is with the MIDI cable (possible, but unlikely as I've tested this with multiple cables), or the FM3. I'll know once I can verify what is being received by the FM3.

The fact that a simple PC message is being transposed by 384 (three banks) suggests that the FM3 is either (1) responding appropriately to an incorrect command, or (2) responding inappropriately to a correct command. I'll be able to isolate this issue once I can independently inspect the MIDI command.
 
If you turn on MIDI Thru on the FM3 and loop back to the MC6 can you use the Morningstar editor to monitor what is coming in from the FM3 over the USB port.

i.g. does PC 5 on channel 1 read back as PC 5 on channel 1.
 
I thought I would try this as I have a MC6.

PC 4 on channel 1 sets FM3 preset 4
PC 12 on channel 1 sets FM3 preset 12

This is with MC6 MIDI Out -> FM3 MIDI In
and without FM3 MIDI Out -> MC6 MIDI In
i.e. no 2-way communication.

The MC6 Editor monitor reflects the right messages being sent.
The FM3 responds as expected.

Setting the PC Offset to 300 yields

FM3 preset 304
FM3 preset 312

Hopes this helps.
 
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Smellytele said:
I'm watching this thread; I was planning on integrating my MC6 with my FM3.
Click to expand...
I've read a number of threads where people were successful doing this, and I'm thinking it's an isolated problem. It's unusual, especially given the relative simplicity of MIDI messaging, and I will isolate the variables later today. The MC6 seems really great , and I'm glad I have it. I just need to figure out why it and the FM3 aren't communicating normally.
 
unix-guy said:
Maybe try setting Midi Offset to something other than 0, then test and then set back to 0?
Click to expand...
I did that, and it responded by being off by 384 + offset. I set the offset back zero, and it responded by being off by 384 presets. For some reason, the FM3 is going to Bank C, which is weird. I scroll back to bank A preset zero on the FM3, and resend the command. Again, the FM3 goes to the PC + 384. The fact that the tuner doesn't function correctly (even when mapped to CC#15) and the directly sending the CC for bank A preset zero also goes to #384 tells me something is wonky here. Clearly my studio is haunted. The only possible explanation.
 
I run a FC6 with my FM3 but out of curiosity installed the latest firmware on the MC6 and tried the procedures outlined in the following video. It works as advertised but unsurprisingly lacks the flexibility offered by the FC6.

 
Ah... I have identified a possible culprit here. According to the Morningstar manual "The MC6 requires at least 120mA of power at 9VDC". I'm providing it 250 mA from a pedalboard power supply. As an experiment, I swapped it out for a power supply with 500 mA, and everything with the MC6 became stable and predicable. All of the commands work correctly, and it's not jumping around to the wrong bank any more. So, I am fairly confident that might was at least one of the key problem here. I'm now testing all other functions to see if this has resolved my issues.
 
Yep. I've confirmed that everything is working correctly now. I've also been in touch with Morningstar tech support, which is really great and they're quick to reply. The issue was the power supply. So, despite what the manual says, you should probably be supplying 200 mA to the MC6. I've changed the title of this thread to indicate it has been resolved. If I experience any additional issues, I'll update the post. Thanks to everyone for your recommendations.
 
stdout said:
I run a FC6 with my FM3 but out of curiosity installed the latest firmware on the MC6 and tried the procedures outlined in the following video. It works as advertised but unsurprisingly lacks the flexibility offered by the FC6.

Click to expand...

I went ahead and bought an FC6 today. My initial plan was to use the MC6 in the same manner as an FC6, but after getting to know the FM3 better each day, I can see the value of having the FC6. It's been a week since I have gotten my FM3, I'm totally sold on it. I'm all in. I may end up getting on the FM9 waitlist, but I'm gonna wait and see if I actually need the extra horsepower. So far I haven't. My needs are pretty simple.
 
Sleestak said:
Yep. I've confirmed that everything is working correctly now. I've also been in touch with Morningstar tech support, which is really great and they're quick to reply. The issue was the power supply. So, despite what the manual says, you should probably be supplying 200 mA to the MC6. I've changed the title of this thread to indicate it has been resolved. If I experience any additional issues, I'll update the post. Thanks to everyone for your recommendations.
Click to expand...
Thank you for this. I just bought a MC6 again and wanted to try all of this out when it arrived. I do have a FC-6 with my FM3, but for summertime outdoor gigs, I prefer the Morningstar as it's easier to see in the sun.
 
What you should know about the AxeFX Integration mode in the MC6
  • Set your MC6 and Fractal Devices to different MIDI channels.
  • On the MC6 editor, let's say you assign Bank 1 Preset (button) A to AxeFX Integration / FM3 / Preset Select, and in the Preset Start From dropdown, you pick zero.
  • Now, if you press MC6 button A, the MC6 will display the first FIVE presets starting with Preset Zero (because that's where you told it to start). The sixth MC6 button is labeled ( Exit ), and it takes you back to the previous view on the MC6. You can't over-write any of the button functions in AxeFX Integration mode.
  • There isn't an option for "go to next five presets" on the MC6. Your only options are to pick a preset, or go back to the previous menu.
It's similar for the Scene Select
  • On the MC6 editor, assign Bank 1 Preset (button) A to AxeFX Integration / FM3 / Scene Select.
  • Now, if you press MC6 button A, the MC6 will display the first FIVE scenes in the AxeFX (or FM3) preset. The sixth MC6 button is labeled ( Exit ), and it takes you back to the previous view on the MC6. You can't over-write any of the button functions in AxeFX Integration mode.
  • There isn't an option for "go to next scenes" on the MC6. Your only options are to pick a scene, or go back to the previous menu.
The really weird thing
  • On the MC6 editor, let's say you assign Bank 1 Preset (button) A to AxeFX Integration / FM3 / Preset + Scene Select, and in the Preset Start From dropdown, you pick zero.
  • Now, if you press MC6 button A, the MC6 will display the first SIX presets starting with Preset Zero (because that's where you told it to start).This is a one-way door. There is no way out of this screen other than selecting a preset. You can't over-write any of the button functions in AxeFX Integration mode, so you can't program an EXIT button.
  • OK, now you've done it. You're stuck making a preset selection. Once you pick one, you'll see the first FIVE scenes in that AxeFX (or FM3) preset. There isn't an option for "go to next five presets" on the MC6. Your only options are to pick a scene (which keeps you in scene select view), or press the sixth MC6 button labeled ( Exit ), which will take you back to the starting point from before you pressed the button to select a preset (first bullet in this section).
  • If you happened to erroneously pick a range of presets from Preset + Scene, and need to get back to make another selection, you need to (1) pick a preset anyway (2) hit the EXIT button.

The MC6 is actually a pretty neat MIDI pedal, and has a lot of power. I realized pretty quickly that the current AxeFX Integration mode is inflexible and really not very useful for me. My solution was to just program my preset and scene names in the MC6 editor, and it works great.
 
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