Request: Feedback / Synth Fade In (Boston - Long Time)

Rich G.

Rich G.

Experienced
My band performs Boston's Long Time. We don't have a keyboard player or another guitar player so I have to cover a lot of sonic ground.

One area that sounds a little empty is during the verses where the guitar sustains a chord which blooms into feedback. I'd like to swell in something that sounds like guitar feedback using a synth block, but I can't seem to craft a natural sound for this. What I have sounds too 'synthy' and not 'guitary'. Anyone care to help me out with this one?
 
If you're in a Boston tribute band, you've got to invest in a Fernandes Sustainer system, or a Sustainiac system. I wouldn't try to simulate guitar feedback with the synth block. But you could try it with the Multi-Delay, with the pitch tuned up 7 semitones to harmonize a 5th above the note, or 12 semitones for an octave feedback. Then just bring the effect in and out with an expression pedal.
 
the problem is you'll be playing a chord which needs to morph into a single note. the synth won't allow you to play chords, but you could crossfade into the synth set to play by itself. if you feed that into your amp, you might be able to get away with it, especially if you have the lfo give it a bit of vibrato. i made a feedback simulator a while back that used the pitch shifter to generate a note an octave+5th up with compression for sustain, which sounded good, but it would only work on single notes

it must be possible, let me have a think...
 
well, it kinds works!

if you set the synth to sine waves - one tuned to a high F and another tuned to an A above that and fade them in with a pedal...feeding the same amp you're playing through...it kinda sounds ok! add a touch of pitch modulation. i also made the synth voices crossfade a bit between the F and the A. if i get time tomorrow, i'll make you a patch.
 
The best sound would be from adding two synth blocks and another amp block...would you have enough CPU to do this? If you don't mind attaching your patch, I could make the changes and you could test it out and see if you dig it. Let me know which external you'd be using to do the fade as well
 
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A Sustainer would be awesome, but it's just for this one song... and I feel if I had one I would play sustaining single note solos all night. ;)

I figure just a static synth set to a frequency. I wasn't sure about feeding it into the same amp as my guitar signal. I tried that last night and it sounded awful! I set the synth to play the 1st & 3rd and an 8th. It sounded like putting two guitars into a single amp input... and if you're like me you tried this when learning to play guitar and had a buddy come over.
 
Yeah, Rich, my apologies - you're not doing a whole set, but just one of their songs. Too bad you can't just put an amp or monitor wedge in front of you and cause feedback the way old Tom did it way back in 19 ott 76....
 
simeon said:
The best sound would be from adding two synth blocks and another amp block...would you have enough CPU to do this? If you don't mind attaching your patch, I could make the changes and you could test it out and see if you dig it
Click to expand...

Not sure if I'll have enough CPU for this. It's running pretty high right now because I have two paths running- one for piezo, one for mags. With gigs n'all happening this weekend I won't be able to get to it until Sunday.

... and thanks for looking into this, Simeon!! You're the MAN! :)
 
Here's my attempt using the synth block.

Modifier 1 switches between input 1 & 2. I use input 1 for mag pickups, 2 for piezo.
Modifier 2 controls the volume on the synth.
Modifier 3 controls delay
Modifier 8 activates a boost for the solo

I'm not really trying to replicate the guitar sound. The sound I use here is my standard HB/Basketweave TV combination. I use that combination on most everything. Normally I link it as a global, but I disabled the link for this preset.

I should also mention that we do this song a few steps down from the original... and we tune down a half step. So the sustaining 'feedback' sound is for a Db chord.

I set each of the three synth frequencies to 440 and then use the shifts to change the note so it's easy enough to change.
 

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  • Long Time RichG.syx
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ok, i've downloaded it. i'll have a look tomorrow, if i get time (pretty hectic mastering 20 tunes for a charity project and the kids school play to go to - no rest for the wicked, as they say)

if i can squeeze another amp block in, i can use the existing synth block to generate two tones and feed them via the left/right input select to both amps. that should get you a pretty clean sound

and modifier/external 2 is a controller pedal, yes?
 
ok try this

i would say, your rhythm sound is way too bright, really...

and you don't need to use a mic on the mix cabs, they already have them baked in

try putting a wah in front of the amp in a fixed position... :)
 

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  • Long Time RichG v2.syx
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simeon said:
ok try this

i would say, your rhythm sound is way too bright, really...

and you don't need to use a mic on the mix cabs, they already have them baked in

try putting a wah in front of the amp in a fixed position... :)
Click to expand...

thanks for looking at this for me! I really like what you've done with the synth. It made the feedback sound more realistic.

I was also pleasantly surprised by what you did with the acoustic path. At first I was skeptical with the removal of the tube preamp. I thought it would sound lifeless without it. You replaced it with a FET Boost drive block and now it sounds as good if not better. I may do this to for all my acoustic paths!

As for the amp sounding bright, I agree. In my headphones (ATH-M50S) it does sound rather harsh. I'm willing to try some changes there, but I may end up migrating right back to where I was. I've tweaked the HB a lot to get "my" sound from our PA (Yorkville U15 tops, LS808 subs). I find that if I level things out for a nice balanced tone (to my ears) I end up disappearing in the mix. I gauge this by audience feedback (I run sound from stage). If people* tell me I need to turn up the guitar then I boost the presence some. Lately people haven't been saying anything other than good things about the guitar sound.

*By people I mean general audience members. Guitar players opinions on guitar volume count as half (because what guitar player doesn't want more guitar!). Respected sound men count double. Crazy drunks don't count at all.
 
well it was more than it just sounding bright...it sounds kinda weak to me. kinda loose and low gain....no "girth". it's also why you're not getting any real feedback.

i can get totally into boston territory with my plexi 100w high patch. the lead is nearly spot on and with a cocked wah (with low low res) it sounds pretty damn close for rhythm

why not check it out - scene 1 rhythm...scene 2 lead...
 

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  • Boston plexi.syx
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simeon said:
well it was more than it just sounding bright...it sounds kinda weak to me. kinda loose and low gain....no "girth". it's also why you're not getting any real feedback.
Click to expand...

What kind of guitar/pickups are you running? I'm using an Anderson Drop Top with a Duncan JB in the bridge. It seems to have plenty of gain for me. I agree that it lacks girth- I let the bass player cover that area of the sonic spectrum. Are you listening at gig volume? I always find less gain and less low end is needed at gig volume (due to that whole Fletcher Munson thing).

I recently tried a HBE patch from THIS thread. I loved the sound in the demos and really liked playing with that preset while learning a few songs. I went to use it live and it got lost in the mix. I was plenty loud enough. It just didn't cut and didn't have the clarity I had been used to. I went back to the BE amp (and actually increased the input gain) and all the mix-cutting clarity was back.

I'll definitely check out that Plexi preset. Never hurts to try!
 
just had another chance to have a fiddle...if you don't want to use the wah, you can simply use one band from a peq, with freq set to 650hz and gain set to 12db (replace the wah block and remove the shunt under the wah block). sounds good on the lead scene as well!
 
Here's an update to this preset. I changed the Cab block to stereo and got rid of the mic sims to give the sound some more "oomf". There are some tweaks to the Amp as well to add girth. I also routed the delay so it doesn't affect the acoustic sound.

I tried to make a recording of how this sounds to show how I'm using it... but each time I did the CPU would overload (using MacBook Pro / Audacity). :(
 

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  • Long Time RichG v3.syx
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Just throwing something out there, If you want to free up some space in your patches just create a second patch for your acoustic sound. I play Foreplay Long Time in my band Rockbox on Bourbon Street and I have a separate patch for the acoustic parts. You should check out the Line 6 James Tyler Variax JTV-89F for your acoustic sounds. The acoustic sounds in the Variax is absolutely astonishing close to an actual acoustic. You can hear the wood resonate when you play. I have guitarists coming up all the time looking at the guitar and my rig trying to figure out where its coming from.
I have my acoustic patch up for download in the axe exchange.


View attachment p001988_JTVAcoustic6.syx
 
I have a Tom Anderson with a sustainiac quite similar to the fernandez sustainer and it is a fantastic tool to do things like this. I can even do some U2 stuff with the sustainer so in short it is very versatile. I should just do some videos to demonstrate but very
Few people know I even have it. It rocks
 
Ah, Long Time - oh yeah! Hoplefully w/ Foreplay too.

I took a look-see & listen to Simeon's preset....good good. But I like this extra snitzel n' snarl:

put Compressor at 1st shunt, as is no tweaking.
put Chorus after the cab...rate 683, depth 35, mix 40%.

Couldn't hear it at band volume, since my love is napping. But it sounds like its got some STUFF on it now.

I also turned Drvie on, changed to BB Pre....and engadged the Mulit dly.
ALL THIS might just give you the sound....I was startin to feeding back at about 30 db's.

Let me know how this works for ya.
 
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