Remind Me Why Some Amps Have a Lower Default Volume/Output

M

Matt007

Inspired
Vaguely remember this being discussed. Wondering why some amps have much lower volume at default output and gain levels. For example the Friedmans tend to be much louder at stock settings and the Voxes and Fenders much lower. Is this due to the real amps working this way... like a 30 watt Vox compared to a 100 watt Marshall?

Any issues taking the level control above 0? I rarely need to do this on most amps but am trying to get multiple amps leveled on the FM3 rather than adjust my monitor or cab output level. For example the Roland Jazz Chorus 120 also takes a ton of level to get to similar volume levels.
 
Just adjust Amp Level. It has no effect on tone.
 
Agreed. Just curious why some amps are so much louder at similar amp levels. Does taking the amp level above 0 introduce clipping? Thanks!
 
But that doesn't answer the question "why". I know different guitars output differently, but it seems to me all the amps should be the same or similar dbs level. I've wondered this myself.
 
They are all different. The wattage is different, the way the power amp works is different, etc.

Think of the physical amps they model. Pick any 2 and set all the knobs at noon. Are they the same volume?

The Fractal devices model the physical amps... With the bonus of the Level control that allows you to compensate as needed.
 
unix-guy said:
They are all different. The wattage is different, the way the power amp works is different, etc.

Think of the physical amps they model. Pick any 2 and set all the knobs at noon. Are they the same volume?

The Fractal devices model the physical amps... With the bonus of the Level control that allows you to compensate as needed.
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That's what I thought. Makes sense. Thanks.
 
unix-guy said:
They are all different. The wattage is different, the way the power amp works is different, etc.

Think of the physical amps they model. Pick any 2 and set all the knobs at noon. Are they the same volume?

The Fractal devices model the physical amps... With the bonus of the Level control that allows you to compensate as needed.
Click to expand...
Then why is the JC120 so low? It's not a quiet, low wattage amp.
 
Probably as a safety measure?

The overall level of some models can vary more than others when the 'Input Drive' in the Amp block is increased. Some get dirtier, but not really louder. Some (clean) models get much louder as the 'Input Drive' is increased, as they are designed to stay cleaner than others.

What if you were checking out a 'Marshall' model with the 'Input Drive' cranked, at gig volume, then selected the 'JC120' model. There would likely be a huge volume jump.??

So it makes sense to have them closer in volume with the 'Input Drive' cranked to mitigate that possibility. But if you have the 'Input Drive' at a lower value, there will be a bigger difference from model to model, but some will be quieter rather than louder?

Just my guess.......
 
henryrobinett said:
But that doesn't answer the question "why". I know different guitars output differently, but it seems to me all the amps should be the same or similar dbs level. I've wondered this myself.
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That's a good question. Part of the answer is that it's highly dependent on the guitar you're using.

I encountered this first hand while beta testing presets. It wasn't at all unusual to have a preset whose scenes were very well leveled when played through a Les Paul with moderate-output pickups — but use a low-output Tele instead, and there were significant scene-to-scene level discrepancies.
 
It seems much better than I recall back in the Axe I. With may main JB/59 equipped guitar I find most amps to be within +/- 3 dB subjectively with a few obvious outliers like the Jazz 120.

Someone might have the means/skills to write a script to go through all amps (no cab) at their defaults and measure their relative gain given low, med, and high output guitars (say a short 2 sec DI loop with a simple open E chord). It might be nice to see that in a graph or spreadsheet.
 
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Moke said:
Probably as a safety measure?

The overall level of some models can vary more than others when the 'Input Drive' in the Amp block is increased. Some get dirtier, but not really louder. Some (clean) models get much louder as the 'Input Drive' is increased, as they are designed to stay cleaner than others.

What if you were checking out a 'Marshall' model with the 'Input Drive' cranked, at gig volume, then selected the 'JC120' model. There would likely be a huge volume jump.??

So it makes sense to have them closer in volume with the 'Input Drive' cranked to mitigate that possibility. But if you have the 'Input Drive' at a lower value, there will be a bigger difference from model to model, but some will be quieter rather than louder?

Just my guess.......
Click to expand...
What if you are on the JC120, have the level way up just to get it close to the correct level & then go to pretty much any other amp, let alone a hi gain amp, forgetting to turn the level back down? You will have at best insanely loud volume if not screeching uncontrolled feedback.
 
notalemming said:
What if you are on the JC120, have the level way up just to get it close to the correct level & then go to pretty much any other amp, let alone a hi gain amp, forgetting to turn the level back down? You will have at best insanely loud volume if not screeching uncontrolled feedback.
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True. With all of the many ways to manipulate the drive and volume in the Amp block, it's tough to allow for all variables.

Maybe it is possible to have each model somehow 'normalized' to account for the current settings when they are loaded, but sounds difficult, and time consuming? And could add more latency when switching between channels?

I haven't really giving it much thought. Just figured that Cliff @FractalAudio is pretty darned smart, so there must be a good reason that it's this way. I am just careful when initially switching to different amp models.
 
notalemming said:
What if you are on the JC120, have the level way up just to get it close to the correct level & then go to pretty much any other amp, let alone a hi gain amp, forgetting to turn the level back down? You will have at best insanely loud volume if not screeching uncontrolled feedback.
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If you adjust the Output level in the amp block itself, and switch to a different amp block or channel, the Output level saved for that amp block or channel will be applied when you switch. Still doesn't answer the 'why' part, but it's a good answer for 'how to fix it'....
 
Joe Bfstplk said:
If you adjust the Output level in the amp block itself, and switch to a different amp block or channel, the Output level saved for that amp block or channel will be applied when you switch. Still doesn't answer the 'why' part, but it's a good answer for 'how to fix it'....
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The level stays the same if you are on 1 channel & resetting which amp block is used in that channel. I'm not talking about switching channels or scenes.
 
The JC120 having low volume is probably due to the power stage not being power/impedance matching. A tube amp is always X watts output regardless of impedance. Solid state is not.

It may also be a hardware issue. Since the FM3/AFX3 is designed for tube amp simulation then solid state may have different impedance/behavior as a result. Much like how the FM3 doesn't have the auto impedance input matching.

Having said that, the FM3 has the only usable fuzz pedal models I have ever used that actually work and sound good, that I can get a usable sound out of, let alone a great sound. I can finally do Hendrix convincingly.
 
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