Reference Monitors you can wear... (Focal, Adam, Mofi, Beyerdynamics)

Forget about those Blue Mofi headphones or whatever... (I never even heard of those until a thread on here, and when I researched them on the net they get very mixed reviews, seem to be more hype than anything else, they certainly aren't reviewed as being better than they Beyerdynamics
)
And yeah those other brand the Beyerdynamics I guess most people on here are using those, but maybe forget those too... (But I could probably get some $500+ AKG or Seinheisser that might be better, but so many axe fx users say those are good for the axe fx I'd lean toward them over the unknown.

BUT, how about these???

Focal Spirit Professional Pro Studio Headphones - Closed
$349

I've done a search on here and it seems only one ore maybe two forum members have mentioned owning these and using them with the Axe Fx.

But is there anyone else on here that can speak on these?

Because EVERYWHERE else online these are said to be as close to listening to studio monitors but with headphones.

I've read in many different places where people that own Focal studio monitors try these new Focal headphones and they say they'd swear they were still hearing the music through the studio monitors that they can't really tell a difference.

I've also read in many places where people are saying they'd never mix a record with headphones, until these came along, and because wearing these sounds the same as using the studio monitors, that they would indeed feel comfortable mixing with these headphones alone.

Focal is supposed to be just as high end as most of you peoples beloved Adams, maybe even superior to the Adams...

So if these headphones are as good as the monitors Focal makes, it just seems like these would be the best headphones one could expect to get for the Axe Fx. Especially since so far Adam doesn't make headphones.

Any focal headphone owners want to share thoughts or people that have tried them?

Unless people in this forum can convince me otherwise I plan to buy these Focal headphones for the simple fact that to me, and to everyone it would seem... the whole objective to wearing headphones is to ideally have them sound as good as if you were listening through studio monitors.

The talk with these is that they deliver just that.

So I am strongly considering getting a pair of Focal CMS 40 4" monitors, and these Focal spirit headphones.

I know I've read a few people on here mention Focals monitors being real good, but still it seems like a very small minority of people in this forum know anything about Focal.
Maybe that's because they are made in France and maybe seem too exotic for most people?

Just seems like most people here have jumped on the Adam bandwagon.

I don't doubt that Adams sound musically pleasing with those ribbon tweeters, but I don't want musically pleasing.

I want EXTREME accuracy. flatness. REALISM. What you put in is EXACTLY what you get out. If you put in a crappy CD, I want it to sound like the crap it is, I don't want it to sound like a polished turd, I want it to sound exactly like the stinky turd it is.

I am a extreme purist audiophile.

Google Magnepan and go their site and you will see their speakers such as the 3.7 ones sell for $6,000 a pair, and they stand 6 feet tall and are only a inch thick and about 2 feet wide, it's the same material that the Adam ribbon is made of but it's the makeup of the whole speaker basically.

People that love hearing music sound very pleasing to the ear, love those Maggies.

But that's the thing, those Magnepans are exaggerating certain things to make the music sound more pleasing and live like...

That's not something a person would want that's using a modeler or is mixing.

So that makes me seriously question the ribbons in Adam speakers for accurate modeling or mixing. They may be about as flat as other speakers, but I do not see how that ribbon is going to contribute anymore to a modeler or mixing session than a Magnepan speaker would contribute, I think the ribbon would exaggerate things and make things sound better than it truly is, just as the Magnepan ribbons are known for.

I would like to see some Axe Fx users do some serious A/B shootouts between some of the same sized Focals Vs Adams.

I have a gut feeling that if more Fractal users had experience with Focal, they'd choose Focals over Adams.

Thoughts?

YJM
 
If you’re an extreme purist audiophile, I think you should go to extreme measures - buy them all and pick the one that meets your needs. Sell the rest.
 
I recently got some Focal Twin6 Be monitors and couldn't be happier. Regarding headphones, I'm using DT770s. I thought they were incredible until I recently borrowed three pairs of Ultrasones (the 900s, 2900s, and even the rare and stupidly pricey Edition 8s), and I realized how lacking the DT770s are in the highs, and - I'm sure many will find this difficult to believe - but the low-lows too. That said, I thought the mids of the Ultrasones were utterly lacking. I heard the DT880s a long time ago and totally loved them, but that was before I'd ever heard any really good headphones, so I don't trust that judgement. I bought the MoFis and hated them immensely. Extremely boxy sounding. The only positive thing I can say about them is they could go loud enough to double as a speaker for a smaller room. The dark chrome looked cool too. I also have a pair of Grados somewhere, but while they're incomparably detailed in the highs, they're also totally lacking lows and incredibly uncomfortable to wear for any substantial amount of time.

So...I, too, am extremely curious about the Focal Spirits. Their reviews are about as solid as can be - and now, owning the speakers (which literally brought tears to my eyes the first time I gave them a serious listen they sound so good), I don't doubt them. Unfortunately, no one has them up here in Anchorage that I know of. My friend with the Edition 8s also hates them and is curious about the Spirit Pros. I believe he intends to sell the Edition 8s and use the proceeds to go toward, at least in part, some Focals.
 
Thanks for the warm welcome Brock :)

I think the DT770s have gained popularity here because a few of the long time Axe Fx users here swear by them, and people that don't have the time to test out a lot of different brands like the comfort of going with a sure thing that does a really good job at translating the Axe Fx.

I guess the Event Opals are the holy grail though when it comes to studio monitors that show off the Axe Fx to the best of it's ability. Because that's what the creator of Fractal uses, and I'm sure he has tried everything and for whatever reasons he thinks those Opals are the absolute best of the best.

I know the Opals would not work for me though because 7" is too big for my room.

Which is one reason why I like the Focal CMS 40 because it's only 4".

I did find a Genelec 3" but, I think going 3" inch may be just a bit too small, and I've heard more good things about modelers being used through Focals than I have Genelecs, some of the guys in the Kemper forum also rave about Focals.

So I am thinking maybe Focal will compare to the quality of the Opals, but in a smaller cone.

I guess my main 3 choices have been the Adam A5x, the JBL LSR3, and the focal cms 40, all of those are between 4 - 5 1/2 speakers I believe, the JBLs are not front ported which is the main thing that ruled them out for me... and then the Adams ribbon tweeters has made me skeptical, and that leaves Focal, and I'm thinking if those Spirits live up to the hype it'd be good to keep the Focal consistency and have the monitors and headphones both by them. Oh also, the Yamaha hs or ns clones were also a thought but too many people say they are too harsh and cause too much fatigue and lack some detail as well compared to the Adams. I guess again, at end of day those Opals are perfection, I mean what better monitors to use than the ones the creator uses to create all the tones of the unit in the first place. If only Event would make a 4 or 5" version of the Opals, then the choice would be easy. But I'm pretty decided on the Focal CMS 40s unless I learn any reasons why there's a better small monitor for the Axe Fx. I was actually concerned about their small size, but every review I read says people are amazed by them that they actually sound better & bigger than the larger monitors they replaced and that the speakers themselves seem to disappear and you have a huge sound stage.

But I'm still thinking out loud, and all this thinking is making me hungry so I'm off to grab some donuts! Will check back in later.
 
I highly doubt you will find someone here who is nearly as critical or demanding towards headphones and monitors as you seem to be. And you seem to have done a lot of research on the matter already;

So I more or less second what Johan said: try them all and check out what works best. There is just too much subjectivity mixed into every review to really make a decision based on facts alone. And the Fractal community is not large enough to have a significant "popular choice" either. If you narrowed it down to 3 choices already, have someone else set them up for you and then do an honest-to-god blind shootout.

That's the only way to go sure you select the best possible solution; by being completely unbiased on specs and names.
 
I heard the focal spirits and to me they didn't impress. I've also been through a few sets of beyerdynamics which I thought were good until I bought my current set of cans,the AKG K812. Expensive headphones but they're just so good its ridiculous. As far as monitors go,my favorite so far for smaller monitors has been a set of Genelec 8030a's. Small monitors do lack low end though so be aware of that
 
Wait... is this "the" YJM? :) Welcome to the forum!

I'm a strong believer in the Beyerdynamic DT880 Pros. I think they have the best bang for buck. You'll find something similar from Sennheiser like f.ex. the HD600 and HD650 but it starts to get a lot more expensive after that and the sound may not get much better. Obviously if money is not an issue then the Sennheiser HD800 seems to be the flagship of flagships.

Remember that flat response is not the best/only way to judge a mix as good or bad. Professionals have been using Yamaha NS10s as the industry standard and although people say they're flat they're actually mid heavy in comparison to what people consider to be flat nowadays.
 
I'm quite happy with my Beyerdynamic DT880 too. They're also light enough and comfy enough to wear all day.

Yup, I never get ear fatigue with these. I definitely get ear fatigue with many proper studio monitors... you know.. doing the work that I do. :)

The low end is "real low end" meaning that these are actually capable of playing low frequencies rather than having a lot of bass which is being used in some headphones to make it seem like they have good bass response.

These have a bit more high end than other headphones but that's IMO what makes these sound neutral.
 
I believe you have to learn a set of speakers / headphones to be able to use them to critically listen and mix.

I don't the reason why, but different people bond with different monitor brands / models. They just seem to favor them. It's not because they are the flattest or most neutral or cheapest or most expensive either.

Whenever a professional mixer / engineer / record producer endorses a particular monitor, remember, they mix mostly in treated rooms. That is the key for a lot of monitors that are not neutral. They can work, but in a treated room.

That is my case, vintage NS10's here.

Everyone has unique hearing / perception. You have to try something for yourself to see if it is right for you.
 
I believe you have to learn a set of speakers / headphones to be able to use them to critically listen and mix.

I don't the reason why, but different people bond with different monitor brands / models. They just seem to favor them. It's not because they are the flattest or most neutral or cheapest or most expensive either.

Whenever a professional mixer / engineer / record producer endorses a particular monitor, remember, they mix mostly in treated rooms. That is the key for a lot of monitors that are not neutral. They can work, but in a treated room.

That is my case, vintage NS10's here.

Everyone has unique hearing / perception. You have to try something for yourself to see if it is right for you.

Steven Wilson used to record and mix in a room in his house that was largely untreated. We 'hear' with our eyes sometimes and for some people a certain brand just has 'it' for them. Also, our perceptions shift according to exposure. If you listen to a system for a while your ear (in this case, not just your ear but the whole listening and perception system) adjusts and other systems can sound somehow 'wrong' as you know what to listen for in your system. The trick is to learn the room and the system you have got as every one of them has idiosyncrasies. Most studios have different sets of monitors because it's essentially a 'best guess' that your mixes will sound good, and if you can make a mix sound good on NS 10's then you're 95% of the way there with your mix, even though they leave a lot to be desired sonically.

With headphones, I've got a nice set of HD650s, that don't have the low end of my monitoring system and don't have the harshness of a cheaper pair of KRK's that I have. However, I know that when it sounds good on the KRKs, most of my work is done and I can check the high end and true mid response on the 650s and then put it through the main monitors for any other problems that may be left.

To the OP, if this IS YJM, then welcome! It's nice to have a legend among us. If it's not, welcome the the fold! :)
 
Zwiebelchen, well I guess I'm not THAT anal about headphones as I came off, I just consider Fractal to be the best of the best, and I want headphones that will do the most justice when used with the Axe FX, especially since 90% of my play time with the Axe Fx will be done through headphones.

ML Soundlab, I'm for sure not knocking the DT880s, if I don't get the Focals the DT880s will probably be what I get. You are the guy Clark or Clarky right? If so you've always impressed me with your ears attention to detail in the recordings you've posted and the stuff you made, it's so confusing now that you changed your screen name from Clark Kent I think, plus there's also another member on here named Clark so yeah it's confusing. (oh nevermind, just noticed your new tagline :) )

But, one other thing that confuses me, is do I need a headphone amp to get the best from the DT880's? I've read where some people are using headphone amps with the Beyer headphones on here and some aren't.

Also I'm confused between the 880's and the 770's... Is there any real difference or reason why one of those would be better than the other for Axe Fx other than one's closed? And I think I may prefer closed, but then again maybe I don't have a preference.

But I'm not knocking any brands of phones/monitors, just wanted to bring the Focal stuff to peoples attention on here and see what thoughts were, and also who knows maybe now some that haven't tried it will test it out and who knows, just seems like that may be a hidden gem.

Also I just want everyone to know, that I think Fractal is THE Ferrari of modelers.

A giant wall of Axe Fx's that is going to be the future cool that was a wall of marshall cabinets.

So many Fractals on stage that the only two things of Earth that can be seen from space will be the great wall of China, and my great wall of Axe Fx's!

:)

YJM
 
You will probably need an amp but only if you use the 600 ohm version of the DT880s. Even then, the Axe FX does do a decent job powering them. I have never used the 770s.

Regardless, using headphones to monitor direct is not the same is using a monitor or wedge. Cliff has discussed that on the forum. But for me, I found the Blue MoFis to be the best solution. They are much brighter though.

The Fractal - Ferrari statement is true... not that I've ever driven a Ferrari! lol

I read reviews about the Focals on Amazon, and they get high marks for sound but not comfort.
 
Gotta say, I'm not sure this is the Yngwie J. Malmsteen. Yngwie doesn't play through headphones and would never consider digital amp modeling. He's hasn't dropped any F-bombs. He hasn't been disrespectful toward anyone or anything - in fact, he's been utterly respectful. He's even been reverent toward things such as Cliff and Event Opals, and the real Yngwie is only utterly reverent toward himself and his own legacy. Guess this is a different Yngwie J. Malmsteen. Small world!

Mikko - As I wrote in my post, I was blown away by the 880s. I've now been using the 770s for over a decade and in recent comparisons (to higher end Ultrasones) I found them to be lacking in the low-lows, and very much so in the highs. Have you compared the two models? Are the 880s better than the 770s in those regards?
 
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Gotta say, I'm not sure this is the Yngwie J. Malmsteen. Yngwie doesn't play through headphones and would never consider digital amp modeling. He's hasn't dropped any F-bombs. He hasn't been disrespectful toward anyone or anything - in fact, he's been utterly respectful. In fact he's been reverent toward things such as Cliff and Event Opals, and the real Yngwie is only utterly reverent toward himself and his own legacy. Guess this is a different Yngwie J. Malmsteen. Small world!

I have to agree with Brock - I am not a fan, no disrespect meant at all please to YJM.. I really believe Matt would have said something ............He is really on top of this stuff.....meaning known players\bands and the axefx and the forum. Just sayin.......
 
+1 for 880Pros. I haven't tried many to compare them to, a couple budget offerings from Senn & KRK, but these have REALLY delivered for me.
Good tone, pretty accurate as far as HPs go. No ear fatigue even over extended use. They don't break the bank...
My only beef has been the high impedance & low output... nothing a decent HP amp wouldn't cure.
 
I have a pair of Focal CMS50 speakers and spirit pro headphones as well! Both sounds awesome and are very accurate! I'm sure there are plenty of other good choices but these works perfectly for me! They are not cheap but you get what you paid for!
 
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