Redeveloping an ear for tone?

Dolphinado said:
I’ve found that I like the sound of the Friedman HBE 2018 C45 model quite a lot for rhythm guitar in my original songs, but at least with my guitar (PRS CE 24 Semi-hollow) and current amp settings, I want the low end to be tighter, and the gain higher but also more articulate. I’ve tried messing with the EQ, presence, and depth already. What are my next steps? Like, what kind of tweaks are worth trying to get closer to the sound I’m describing?
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As a side note, I just managed to fix this specific issue! (I mean, "fix" – it wasn't really a problem, just something I wanted to tweak) I happened upon the Setting the Master Volume thread over in Tech Notes, and realized that I was getting waaaay too much power amp distortion for this amp model and for the kind of sound I wanted. I just turned the Master Volume down, level matched it, and couldn't believe what a massive difference it made.
 
ccroyalsenders said:
This a million times!!

USB live reamping in the III is a godsend (Cliffsend?) for this. You can also use the looper to help if you don't want to play and dial, play and dial, play and dial.
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Also removes “pick noise” which can contribute to what you think you hear at low volumes... but at gig level... it’s not there!
 
I recommend Austin Buddy's Naked Amps Tone Pack for Axe FX 3. These professionally created presets provide an excellent basis for tone and what should sound like what. No need to tweak. Just run through the presets and make a note of those that work for you - then have a look at the one's you like a bit closer to understand what makes them tick. I have no affiliation with AB but I'm extremely grateful for the tone reference these presets provide.
 
I ran into a similar situation a few months ago when trying to go direct instead of using a power amp/cab. I was frustrated that presets I thought sounded great at home with monitors were sounding thin and harsh in a live environment (PLEASE do not reference Fletcher-Munson, I tweak presets at a fairly high volume!). Finally decided to scrap my presets and start over with the amp and an "appropriate" cabinet. In my case it was the AC-20 EF86 Treble that I eventually paired with the AC-20 DLX MIX.

I left the amp parameters at their default values and started playing, trusting that it was how it was supposed to sound. In comparison to my original presets, it was very mid heavy and lacked some top end but sounded surprisingly good! I went on to a couple of other amp models and paired them with "appropriate" cabs with the same result, they sounded like the amps, not just a guitar sound.

It seems that tweaking on monitors I had fallen into a trap of creating a guitar sound rather than focusing on and maintaining the core amp tone. It is very easy to add too much high end. After trusting the default values for a couple of weeks and "re-calibrating" my ears, I started playing around with IRs and a couple of my go-to parameters and have had much, much better success. My live tones are sounding great, just need to continue to remember where the guitar is supposed to sit in the mix and not overthink and over tweak the amp.
 
Update on my tone journey for anyone interested: a few months later, I think I’ve come a looong way! I’m at the point now where:
  • I have an intuitive understanding of most of the amp “archetypes” out there (e.g. this sounds like a Plexi, that sounds like a Mesa Mark series, this sounds like a chimey Vox, that sounds like a Recto, etc) and when I’d want to use one or the other depending on the song
  • I have a much better understanding of cab archetypes (e.g. Mesa OS sounds huge, a bit scooped, Orange cabs are mid-forward with a smooth high end, etc)
  • I have a better sense of mic types and how they blend (ie. a ribbon mic like the Royer 121 blended with an SM57 balances out some of the harsher frequencies the SM57 can pick up on its own), and this makes it a lot easier to shortlist cab mixes and manually blend IRs myself
  • I have a much better sense of my own taste in amp tones now (turns out I love the 5150 for rhythm tones, Mesa Mark IIC++ for leads, Fender Twin Reverb for cleans, and I change my mind about which Marshall permutation I like the most for noodling every time I play haha)
I did this mostly by making a habit of watching guitar tone videos on YouTube every day (shout out to @2112, @ML SOUND LAB, @ccroyalsenders, Sonic Drive Studios), and then following that up with trying out the sounds explored in those videos on my own (a lot of times referencing the video side-by-side with Axe-Edit while tweaking). Once I found some sounds I liked while just noodling, I recorded some DI tracks for one of my original songs along to a drums & bass backing track and reamped to get a feel for how they sit in the mix - this was critical for me. If I’d left myself to random noodling, I don’t think I’d have any idea if what I was experimenting with was even working. This was how I discovered I liked the 5150 - I was iffy about it at first, until I tried it in the mix.

So anyway, this is all to say I’ve come a looong way thanks in no small part to everyone’s great advice! 🙏🏽
 
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First of all I need start by saying I don't believe that people that get good tone or even mix at the highest levels have any kind of superior hearing ability - that is IMO kind of an ego boost thing. What really has helped me throughout the years to get to where I am with the tone stuff is to simply use real tube amps and cabs and mic them up on a weekly basis. Once you get into digital modelers with a gazillion controls and OCD type needs to fiddle every knob you'll quickly find yourself with a tone that sometimes sounds great and sometimes sounds terrible. Real analog tube amp guitar tones are not perfect by any means - they have imperfections in them and that is a big part of why they sound "real". So the best tip I can give people is to spend as little time as possible tweaking those knobs. Learn how to get that tone fast before you get ear fatigue.
 
ML SOUND LAB said:
First of all I need start by saying I don't believe that people that get good tone or even mix at the highest levels have any kind of superior hearing ability - that is IMO kind of an ego boost thing. What really has helped me throughout the years to get to where I am with the tone stuff is to simply use real tube amps and cabs and mic them up on a weekly basis. Once you get into digital modelers with a gazillion controls and OCD type needs to fiddle every knob you'll quickly find yourself with a tone that sometimes sounds great and sometimes sounds terrible. Real analog tube amp guitar tones are not perfect by any means - they have imperfections in them and that is a big part of why they sound "real". So the best tip I can give people is to spend as little time as possible tweaking those knobs. Learn how to get that tone fast before you get ear fatigue.
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But there is people that cannot differentiate a trumpet form a tuba, or the nuances between different pickups. Therefore, analytical hearing must be an ability that some develop above others, regardless of the ego.
 
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Piing said:
But there is people that cannot differentiate a trumpet form a tuba, or the nuances between different pickups. Therefore, analytical hearing must be an ability that some develop above others, regardless of the ego.
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True. That kind of analytical hearing only comes with time spent experimenting with the gear and paying attention to the results. Try multiple guitars/amps/pickup/etc., every chance you get. Read up on these topics from multiple sources, and allow yourself to be taught by everyone, always keeping in mind that some of what you are told will be total bullshit. Over time you will learn how to separate the wheat from the chaff, and you will develop your own understanding of how it all works.
 
Yes I agree with Rex that it's something you can learn. "I know this is a tube because it has this specific resonance" etc. It's not about having a natural talent or having good ear genes because your dad was a musician or whatever. :)
 
Record your tone with and without tracks a lot, and listen back to it, a lot. That will help you to more readily hear what will work and what won't work for the music you are doing.

It's also fun to try and copy a favorite guitarist's tone and get as close as you can.
 
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