Red Wirez "Tone Recipe Formula" Sharing Thread

My Clean IR mix - used with USA Clean amp

BIGBox/48 KHz-24bit/Marshall1960B-V30s/Sennheiser MD421N/Marshall1960B-V30s-421-CapEdge-0in.wav,0.50
BIGBox/48 KHz-24bit/VoxAC30Blues/Neumann U87/VoxAC30Blues-U87-CapEdge-1in.wav,0.40
BIGBox/48 KHz-24bit/Marshall1960B-V30s/Ambient Mics/Marshall1960B-V30s-KM84-BackCab-3in.wav,0.05
BIGBox/48 KHz-24bit/Marshall1960B-V30s/Ambient Mics/Marshall1960B-V30s-KM84-Stereo-Room.wav,0.05

-Mike
 
This is a mix with the new farfields. It sounds very good with the Mesa mk amps.


BIGBox\48 KHz-24bit\MesaRectifierV30s\TC30-Ref-FarFields\MesaRectifier-V30s-TC30-Cap-0in.wav,0.20
BIGBox\48 KHz-24bit\MesaRectifierV30s\TC30-Ref-FarFields\MesaRectifier-V30s-TC30-CapEdge-0in.wav,0.20
BIGBox\48 KHz-24bit\MesaRectifierV30s\TC30-Ref-FarFields\MesaRectifier-V30s-TC30-Cone-0in.wav,0.20
BIGBox\48 KHz-24bit\MesaRectifierV30s\TC30-Ref-FarFields\MesaRectifier-V30s-TC30-ConeEdge-0in.wav,0.20
BIGBox\48 KHz-24bit\MesaRectifierV30s\TC30-Ref-FarFields\MesaRectifier-V30s-TC30-5ft-2m.wav,0.20
 
I really like these new farfield reference mic IRs. Really sound open and nicer in the mids. Here is my first mix which I find good with hi-gain:

BIGBox\48 KHz-24bit\Marshall1960B-V30s\TC30-Ref-FarFields\Marshall1960B-V30s-TC30-Cap-0in.wav,0.35
BIGBox\48 KHz-24bit\Marshall1960B-V30s\TC30-Ref-FarFields\Marshall1960B-V30s-TC30-Cone-0in.wav,0.20
BIGBox\48 KHz-24bit\Marshall1960B-V30s\TC30-Ref-FarFields\Marshall1960B-V30s-TC30-CapEdge-0in.wav,0.20
BIGBox\48 KHz-24bit\Marshall1960B-V30s\TC30-Ref-FarFields\Marshall1960B-V30s-TC30-Back-2m.wav,0.05
BIGBox\48 KHz-24bit\Marshall1960B-V30s\TC30-Ref-FarFields\Marshall1960B-V30s-TC30-OffAxis-2m.wav,0.10
BIGBox\48 KHz-24bit\Marshall1960B-V30s\TC30-Ref-FarFields\Marshall1960B-V30s-TC30-OnAxis-2m.wav,0.10
 
Here are my new mixes incorporating the FF IR's from Red Wire.

I tried all sorts of combinations, sometimes more than 50 per cab, and some 'trends' developed in the process. I was trying different mic's, different speakers, different everything. Once I simplified and found a 'formula' that was working for my goal - defined in the next paragraph - I would look for similar formulas to approach other speakers cabs.

My goal was, is and continues to be to nail that elusive 3D 'thing'; I want to close my eyes and see a cab when I hear the tone. I want to hear it defined left and right *and* front to back. I want width *and* depth. I want it to sound like a cab.

I've noticed all sorts of good things working though these. With V9 and these, the actual experience of playing is truly fun and as close to playing with any analog amp as I've ever experienced other than actually.... playing with an analog amp. With V9, 'tuning' in amp blocks is very fast and very much simplified. The tools needed to dial in tones are really straightforward now.

Anyway, I've dialed in four cabs that work for the different tones I use across a lot of different amps. As new speakers are released, I will be refining further and I reserve the right to change my mind completely even about these mixes as I put them up. :D

Fender
BIGBox\48 KHz-24bit\TweedDeluxeBlue\Royer R121\TweedDeluxeBlue-R121-Cap-6in.wav,0.45
BIGBox\48 KHz-24bit\TweedDeluxeBlue\TC30-Ref-FarFields\TweedDeluxeBlue-TC30-Back-2m.wav,0.05
BIGBox\48 KHz-24bit\TweedDeluxeBlue\TC30-Ref-FarFields\TweedDeluxeBlue-TC30-OnAxis-2m.wav,0.50

Vox/Matchless
BIGBox\48 KHz-24bit\VoxAC30Blues\Royer R121\VoxAC30Blues-R121-Cap-6in.wav,0.45
BIGBox\48 KHz-24bit\VoxAC30Blues\TC30-Ref-FarFields\VoxAC30Blues-TC30-Back-2m.wav,0.05
BIGBox\48 KHz-24bit\VoxAC30Blues\TC30-Ref-FarFields\VoxAC30Blues-TC30-OnAxis-2m.wav,0.50

Marshall Greenback
BIGBox\48 KHz-24bit\Marshall1960A-G12Ms\TC30-Ref-FarFields\Marshall1960A-G12Ms-TC30-OffAxisBack-2m.wav,0.05
BIGBox\48 KHz-24bit\Marshall1960A-G12Ms\TC30-Ref-FarFields\Marshall1960A-G12Ms-TC30-OnAxis-2m.wav,0.50
BIGBox\48 KHz-24bit\Marshall1960A-G12Ms\Royer R121\Marshall1960A-G12Ms-R121-Cap-6in.wav,0.45

Bogner V30
BIGBox\48 KHz-24bit\Orange4x12-V30s\Royer R121\Orange4x12-V30s-R121-Cap-6in.wav,0.45
BIGBox\48 KHz-24bit\Marshall1960B-V30s\TC30-Ref-FarFields\Marshall1960B-V30s-TC30-Back-2m.wav,0.05
BIGBox\48 KHz-24bit\Marshall1960B-V30s\TC30-Ref-FarFields\Marshall1960B-V30s-TC30-OnAxis-2m.wav,0.50
 
MSS said:
Scott,

So...are you only using the TC30 mic now?
Click to expand...

I'm wondering the same thing. I tried out a few of the FF mixtures and they are very cool and I hear the cab better but they seem just a bit sterile, as in not enough color. For recording, I like the color of the mic, where it's placed and the wonderful Neve preamp color and balls it gives. I'm going to try some mixing tonight of a FF 5ft 2m with a Royer121 at about 6in or closer for some warmth and start playing from there.
 
MSS said:
Scott,

So...are you only using the TC30 mic now?
Click to expand...

Nah. I changed them up; like this batch better. More character coming through. Edited that post with the new mixes.
 
Hey Scott

I tried one of your early farfield mixes:
BIGBox\48 KHz-24bit\Marshall1960A-G12Ms\TC30-Ref-FarFields\Marshall1960A-G12Ms-TC30-OffAxisBack-2m.wav,0.20
BIGBox\48 KHz-24bit\Marshall1960A-G12Ms\TC30-Ref-FarFields\Marshall1960A-G12Ms-TC30-OnAxis-2m.wav,0.70
BIGBox\48 KHz-24bit\Marshall1960A-G12Ms\TC30-Ref-FarFields\Marshall1960A-G12Ms-TC30-CapEdge-0in.wav,0.10

And I totally get the 3D thing - on my studio monitors with just the guitar playing, I totally hear the depth of sound - close my eyes and almost visualise it (if that makes sense).

My question is how do you think this would cut through to the audience in a live situation with other guitars, bass, Drums etc? do you think it would be lost in the mix if you sent that tone direct to FoH?

Thanks
 
SparkyG said:
Hey Scott

I tried one of your early farfield mixes:
BIGBox\48 KHz-24bit\Marshall1960A-G12Ms\TC30-Ref-FarFields\Marshall1960A-G12Ms-TC30-OffAxisBack-2m.wav,0.20
BIGBox\48 KHz-24bit\Marshall1960A-G12Ms\TC30-Ref-FarFields\Marshall1960A-G12Ms-TC30-OnAxis-2m.wav,0.70
BIGBox\48 KHz-24bit\Marshall1960A-G12Ms\TC30-Ref-FarFields\Marshall1960A-G12Ms-TC30-CapEdge-0in.wav,0.10

And I totally get the 3D thing - on my studio monitors with just the guitar playing, I totally hear the depth of sound - close my eyes and almost visualise it (if that makes sense).

My question is how do you think this would cut through to the audience in a live situation with other guitars, bass, Drums etc? do you think it would be lost in the mix if you sent that tone direct to FoH?

Thanks
Click to expand...

Here's my thoughts from one rehearsal, so take it with a grain of salt: the mixes I had up first did exactly what you say they do. But; and this is IMHO, they do not cut, and they do not have enough 'character' to make them tonally interesting in the mix. This is from just ONE rehearsal; so I could be reading it all wrong; but I had a bunch of cabinets dialed in to mess with on different songs and stuck to my JCM800 preset (single coils and rolled off volume for cleans) and swapped cabinets... listening. I ended up with a similar 'mix' ratio of the Royer and FF; similar to what I had come up with with the original 'room' mic's with the Red Wire cabs.

I came home, redid all the cabs based on this and it's posted above.

Now, I need to at least have another rehearsal or play a gig (gig this weekend, so standby) to REALLY know how they work; but based on what was going on with the first Red Wire IRs this 'mix' should, for ME, be the shiate. :D

I am speculating, yes. And I might have jumped the gun in the rush to share some enthusiasm by mixing just all FF to get good results (and it does!) but my opinion changed - as it does sometimes - when used in the real world. That's always the true acid test for any of this. Mike from Red Wire was outspoken about mixing the FF and NF (Near Field) IR's to add the proper character; IMHO after some real world testing... I can confirm the man knows his stuff. :D

So I went back to the Royer, evened up the percentage with the 2m FF and added a touch of 'back of cab' (the nearer 2m for closed back and the further 5m for open backed cabs seems to work best IMHO) for a final mix that seems to work. Much more after this weekend and some real world testing.

The Marshall cab from above that I prefer at this point:

Marshall
BIGBox\48 KHz-24bit\Marshall1960A-G12Ms\TC30-Ref-FarFields\Marshall1960A-G12Ms-TC30-5ftBack-2m.wav,0.05
BIGBox\48 KHz-24bit\Marshall1960A-G12Ms\TC30-Ref-FarFields\Marshall1960A-G12Ms-TC30-OnAxis-2m.wav,0.50
BIGBox\48 KHz-24bit\Marshall1960A-G12Ms\Royer R121\Marshall1960A-G12Ms-R121-Cone-6in.wav,0.45
 
Thanks Scott

Makes perfect sense, I figured it wouldn't cut through well.

I'll have a go at your one above tonight.

I have 3 gigs this weekend so I'm setting up a few JCM 800 patches all in one bank with different Cab I'R's. My stock will be my old favourite of the VoxAC30Blues SM7 capedge 1In. with no Brt switch.
Then I'll make up some other IR mixes for the others - at least if they don't work in a song, it's easy to swap over.

Bad thing about us is we don't rehearse so I only get to try these in anger live.

BTW I generally use my JCM 800 With the bridge Humbucker in My Shur (SSH+ - 17Kohm resistance), used for Classic rock stuff, Queen, Thin Lizzy type etc.


Cheers
 
Hey Scott

Just tried your new IR mix- Nice

I think you have spotted a great set of mix parameters. I took the same mix and applied it to the Vox AC30Blues to give me this:

BIGBox\48 KHz-24bit\VoxAC30Blues\TC30-Ref-FarFields\VoxAC30Blues-TC30-5ftBack-2m.wav,0.05
BIGBox\48 KHz-24bit\VoxAC30Blues\TC30-Ref-FarFields\VoxAC30Blues-TC30-OnAxis-2m.wav,0.50
BIGBox\48 KHz-24bit\VoxAC30Blues\Royer R121\VoxAC30Blues-R121-Cone-6in.wav,0.45


Awesome- Much closer to what I was looking for - for my taste of course YMMV :lol:

Thanks for the teaching and sharing
 
Interesting-
Playing around with the mix percentages posted by Scott to see what i couls come up with

BIGBox\48 KHz-24bit\TweedDeluxeP12R\TC30-Ref-FarFields\TweedDeluxeP12R-TC30-Cone-0in.wav,0.12
BIGBox\48 KHz-24bit\TweedDeluxeP12R\TC30-Ref-FarFields\TweedDeluxeP12R-TC30-ConeEdge-0in.wav,0.13
BIGBox\48 KHz-24bit\TweedDeluxeP12R\TC30-Ref-FarFields\TweedDeluxeP12R-TC30-Cap-0in.wav,0.12
BIGBox\48 KHz-24bit\TweedDeluxeP12R\TC30-Ref-FarFields\TweedDeluxeP12R-TC30-CapEdge-0in.wav,0.13
BIGBox\48 KHz-24bit\TweedDeluxeP12R\TC30-Ref-FarFields\TweedDeluxeP12R-TC30-5ft-2m.wav,0.02
BIGBox\48 KHz-24bit\TweedDeluxeP12R\TC30-Ref-FarFields\TweedDeluxeP12R-TC30-5ftBack-2m.wav,0.01
BIGBox\48 KHz-24bit\TweedDeluxeP12R\TC30-Ref-FarFields\TweedDeluxeP12R-TC30-Back-2m.wav,0.02
BIGBox\48 KHz-24bit\TweedDeluxeP12R\TC30-Ref-FarFields\TweedDeluxeP12R-TC30-OnAxis-2m.wav,0.23
BIGBox\48 KHz-24bit\TweedDeluxeP12R\TC30-Ref-FarFields\TweedDeluxeP12R-TC30-OffAxis-2m.wav,0.22


and with a mic:
BIGBox\48 KHz-24bit\TweedDeluxeP12R\Royer R121\TweedDeluxeP12R-R121-Cone-6in.wav,0.45
BIGBox\48 KHz-24bit\TweedDeluxeP12R\Royer R121\TweedDeluxeP12R-R121-CapEdge-5in.wav,0.05
BIGBox\48 KHz-24bit\TweedDeluxeP12R\TC30-Ref-FarFields\TweedDeluxeP12R-TC30-5ftBack-2m.wav,0.05
BIGBox\48 KHz-24bit\TweedDeluxeP12R\TC30-Ref-FarFields\TweedDeluxeP12R-TC30-OnAxis-2m.wav,0.45


the first one is just because i could ;)
 
Just spent the day IR mixing. Talk about rabbit holes.
My crunch cab is perfect (for me). My clean and brutal cabs, thats tomorrow; however, I have a feeling the stock cabs will remain for the brutal stuff.

BIGBox\48 KHz-24bit\Marshall1960A-G12Ms\RoyerR121\Marshall1960A-G12Ms-R121-Cap-3in.wav,0.55
BIGBox\48 KHz-24bit\Marshall1960A-G12Ms\TC30-Ref-FarFields\Marshall1960A-G12Ms-TC30-OffAxisBack-2m.wav,0.05
BIGBox\48 KHz-24bit\Marshall1960A-G12Ms\TC30-Ref-FarFields\Marshall1960A-G12Ms-TC30-OnAxis-2m.wav,0.40


Clean:
BIGBox\48 KHz-24bit\TweedDeluxeP12R\Royer121\TweedDeluxeP12R-R121-Cap-5in.wav,.45
BIGBox\48 KHz-24bit\TweedDeluxeP12R\TC30-Ref-FarFields\TweedDeluxeP12R-TC30-Back-2m.wav,0.05
BIGBox\48 KHz-24bit\TweedDeluxeP12R\TC30-Ref-FarFields\TweedDeluxeP12R-TC30-OnAxis-2m.wav,0.5
 
Haven't bought the ReWirez yet, (don't have a way to try mixing them yet) is there any IR's the come already mixed?, what I mean is instead of the IR's being done with just 1 mic, close up, or far away, etc do they include any that were made with say 3 or more mics, like you'd mic in a cab in the studio and ready to load in just one AXE slot?
I understand having them separate is probably the ultimate because we have total control, but I just wonder how different they'd sound if captured already with a few mics..
 
DigitalTube said:
Haven't bought the ReWirez yet, (don't have a way to try mixing them yet) is there any IR's the come already mixed?, what I mean is instead of the IR's being done with just 1 mic, close up, or far away, etc do they include any that were made with say 3 or more mics, like you'd mic in a cab in the studio and ready to load in just one AXE slot?
I understand having them separate is probably the ultimate because we have total control, but I just wonder how different they'd sound if captured already with a few mics..
Click to expand...

Not from Red Wire or Fractal. Some of the free one's on the Web might be, but it's hit and miss.

The reason for this thread is for folks to share what they are using.

Note that this is really a new 'take' on this specific technology.
 
Thanks Scott, can't wait to try some of these mixed combinations that you and others have posted, that's really the best way to get the most of the Axe-FX, sorry if my post was a bit off topic.
 
DigitalTube said:
Thanks Scott, can't wait to try some of these mixed combinations that you and others have posted, that's really the best way to get the most of the Axe-FX, sorry if my post was a bit off topic.
Click to expand...

Don't be sorry at all.

This is really 'learn as you go'; I've been learning every day... it's a process. I think this is as exciting as the Axe-FX itself; to me you need both: Fractal and mixed IR's. But that's just my opinion.

There's no 'rules' yet. We are making them up as we go... :D
 
I'm really likeing Scott's mixes, except I like a little more thump/low end, so I will move the R121 in a lttle bit.
Amazing what an inch here or there does (I know, that's what she said :?)
 
TheOffice-ThatsWhatSheSaid-Michael.jpg
 
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