Red Wirez "Tone Recipe Formula" Sharing Thread

[Mike Snider]

Keano,

the stock cab sims on the axefx each use 1 "space", regardless of how they were first made. when you apply them to a stereo cab block each IR is represented as 100 %. You have the option within the cab block to mix theses two IR's to different levels (creating a different mix ratio). It would be possible to use two stereo cab blocks and a total of 4 different cabs to achieve a "mix"; however it is inefficient in terms of the axefx's resources as it will use a fair amount of CPU for the second stereo cab. Can be done, but you may find yourself sacrificing an effect or other if you have complicated - CPU heavy patches.
The axefx contains 10 user slots in the cab section. This means that only 10 "spaces" are available for users to upload cab IR's. What Scottt and others are doing is using the Redwirez mixer to create IR's which will be premixed and sent to the axefx in order to maximize the 10 spaces available for user uploaded cabs. This process is not unique to the redwirez ir's, but it is a convenient tool some of us are using. Some of the stock axefx cabs may have been created in the same manor....i dont know for sure as i didnt create them. The point is- it comes down to a matter of resources and where do we want to use them.
Scott, I and others are using the redwire mixer tool to create (1) IR mixed to how we want the cab to sound before sending it to the user ir section. This will allow for (10) custom IR's....use them how you will within the axefx.
Personally, i do not use the stereo cabs, i achieve the cab mix i am looking for in the redwire cabs, make the ir>upload to axefx and roll with a mono hires cab. this allows the rest of the axefx resources to be utilized in other locations.
hope this helps.

 

[Mike Snider]

Then select the Orange/ Royer/ cone 6" syx file and the Orange /ambient/ back of cab 0" syx file- load them into two user slots on the axefx and combine them using the stereo cab.
Just note- you will be using two user cab slots on the axefx.

Mike - Sort of confused. I load up one cab in stereo with Orange/ Royer/ cone 6 left and Orange /ambient/ back of cab 0 right
Why would I need to use to cab slots?

Keano,
the stock cab blocks are hard coded and cannot be over written.
when you upload a cab to the axefx you will load it into one of the user slots 1-10. if, for example you load Orange/ Royer/ cone 6 left into user cab 1 and Orange /ambient/ back of cab 0 right into user cab 2 .....you have now fully utilized 2 of 10 user slots. if you use both of those cabs in a stereo cab block on the axefx, the output of the cab block is a mix of the two- 50% each (unless mixed further within the cab block).
An alternate way to do that same mix is to do it with the redwire mixer, mix the two cabs to 50% each before sending to the axefx and upload to only 1 of the user slots (user 1 as an example). You now have user block 2 for another mix.
As you can see from Scotts mix recipe- he is making (1) ir using a percentage mix from the redwire IR;s. it would be hard to nearly impossible to efficiently use these kinds of mixes within the axefx- it would simply "cost" too much CPU and user slots to generate the same mix.
Scotts is mixing 6 mics, if each mic ir at 100% is sent to the axefx- it would require 6 user slots. You could from within the axefx, mix 4 of these mics by using 2 stereo cab blocks and mix to the same output levels. you would not get the final 2 mics mixed in, you would have used 6 user slots and two stereo cab blocks.
Scott has chosen to mix the entire Ir in the redwire mixer, send to the axefx into 1 user slot.

 

[Scott Peterson]

What Mike said.

 

[Mike Snider]

an now...back to Scotts thread.
Great mix Scott- i like it alot.
When i "finalize" mine i will post.

 

[sampleaccurate]

Well, Red Wire has another $55 in the bank, and I have a few hundred IRs to sift through as soon as this giant BigBox zip file extracts. It's home brew IR night at the Cole household. Yee Ha!

Stephen Cole

 

[Scott Peterson]

Well, yea, ok.

The idea of the thread was to share Red Wirez formulas. A bit of a tangent here... eh?

I think the world opens up in the FRFR world when Red Wirez releases Far Field Cab IR's from Reference Mics. At that point, with the variety of cabs AND speakers available in the far field, with flat (as we can hope for) reference mic's... a lot of this debate will boil down to tone and sound. Not 20ms vs. 100ms or anything else.

To me, I'll cross that bridge when we get to it. I want Cab IR's that sound good. The science of it all can go any way it needs to; that's not my thing.

I am happy now. I have a very honest impression that I'll be happier then.

 

[Charlie Wardick]

However, putting your review on my "Sharing" thread for IR Recipes is, also IMHO, either lazy or disrespectful.
Peace.

Now it is spammed over on this thread too: viewtopic.php?f=15&t=8923&p=103377#p103377 I think I came across and entire new thread with same stuff in it too.

 

[Jay Mitchell]

I placed the OT posts into other threads so as to leave this one to its intended purpose.

 

[sampleaccurate]

I placed the OT posts into other threads so as to leave this one to its intended purpose.

I think you removed some information that was on topic but whatever.

I tried Scott's approach to mixing IRs and I'm having a serious issue that could be easiliy fixed by either Red Wire or Fractal. What's really needed for this mixing process to work properly are the 20ms truncated wave files for the AXE, not just the sysex files.

I must use the un-truncated versions in a DAW to preview my mix, but the sound isn't the same when I truncate the IR I come up with to import into the AXE. If I had truncated versions of the IR files that matched the sysex versions I purchased, I could (and you could) hear while mixing IRs exactly what it will sound like once imported to the AXE.

I'm currently having to truncate these by hand before placing them in my VST hosts. With almost 500 IRs this isn't practical. A batch file processing method could be used by Fractal to provide Red Wire with the wav files, or Red Wire could create a batch process for truncating the wave files. Either way would work. I tried but failed to write a batch process in Sound Forge so I can't do this myself.

Considering all the time that I intend to put into making and tweaking IR mixes, doesn't it make sense to host IR files in my computer that when imported to the AXE will sound the same as when they were created? It sure makes sense to me, and it would be easy for either or both companies to create the truncated files and make them part of the AXE files when purchasing the IRs from Red Wire.

What I don't get is why the sysex format was chosen in the first place when Fractal knows folks want to mix them and you can't host an AXE-FX sysex in a computer nor can you convert it back to a wave file. It's also just as easy to import a wave file into the AXE (the software takes care of the conversion) as a sysex, but you can't convert a sysex back to wave for use in a DAW. That decision has significantly hampered the ability to accurately mix IRs without first going through the tedious process of manually shortening the IR wave files being used.

Am I missing something here? Is there a program that allows hosting the sysex format of the AXE IR files that I don't know about? Can (will) anybody out there write a batch process to truncate wave files down to a predetermined number of samples? I can't believe that anybody who is really serious about mixing and tweaking IRs for the AXE wouldn't want the right files to use - files that would result in the exact replication of their hard work rather than something that's just close.

Stephen Cole

 

[sampleaccurate]

Great news! Mike at Redwirez said they will do it! You may have to make a special request for the download once it's done since not that many people own AXEs AND mix IRs, but it should be available soon.

Thanks to the guys at Redwirez.

Stephen Cole

 

[Scott Peterson]

I placed the OT posts into other threads so as to leave this one to its intended purpose.

I think you removed some information that was on topic but whatever.

I tried Scott's approach to mixing IRs and I'm having a serious issue that could be easiliy fixed by either Red Wire or Fractal. What's really needed for this mixing process to work properly are the 20ms truncated wave files for the AXE, not just the sysex files.

I must use the un-truncated versions in a DAW to preview my mix, but the sound isn't the same when I truncate the IR I come up with to import into the AXE. If I had truncated versions of the IR files that matched the sysex versions I purchased, I could (and you could) hear while mixing IRs exactly what it will sound like once imported to the AXE.

I'm currently having to truncate these by hand before placing them in my VST hosts. With almost 500 IRs this isn't practical. A batch file processing method could be used by Fractal to provide Red Wire with the wav files, or Red Wire could create a batch process for truncating the wave files. Either way would work. I tried but failed to write a batch process in Sound Forge so I can't do this myself.

Considering all the time that I intend to put into making and tweaking IR mixes, doesn't it make sense to host IR files in my computer that when imported to the AXE will sound the same as when they were created? It sure makes sense to me, and it would be easy for either or both companies to create the truncated files and make them part of the AXE files when purchasing the IRs from Red Wire.

What I don't get is why the sysex format was chosen in the first place when Fractal knows folks want to mix them and you can't host an AXE-FX sysex in a computer nor can you convert it back to a wave file. It's also just as easy to import a wave file into the AXE (the software takes care of the conversion) as a sysex, but you can't convert a sysex back to wave for use in a DAW. That decision has significantly hampered the ability to accurately mix IRs without first going through the tedious process of manually shortening the IR wave files being used.

Am I missing something here? Is there a program that allows hosting the sysex format of the AXE IR files that I don't know about? Can (will) anybody out there write a batch process to truncate wave files down to a predetermined number of samples? I can't believe that anybody who is really serious about mixing and tweaking IRs for the AXE wouldn't want the right files to use - files that would result in the exact replication of their hard work rather than something that's just close.

Stephen Cole

Stoopid question, but doesn't AlbertA's program already do that?

 

[sampleaccurate]

http://sox.sourceforge.net/[/url]

Download the program from the above link called SoX and unzip it.

Paste the following code into notepad and save it as truncate.txt. Rename the extension from txt to bat so it becomes truncate.bat



rem The converted files end up in a folder called `truncated'
cd %~dp0
mkdir truncated
FOR %%A IN (%*) DO sox %%A "truncated/%%~nxA" trim 0s 1024s
Pause



Put the truncate.bat file in the same directory as the sox.exe program.

Open a second instance of windows explorer and navigate to the folder where the files you wish to truncate are stored. Select all the files you want to truncate, and drag them onto the filename truncate.bat (sounds strange but it works)

This will process the files and put them in a directory called "truncated".

You’re done.

Very cool little program with a lot of other powerful utilities. Have fun!

Stephen Cole

 

[sampleaccurate]

Please note that the program will only convert 10 or 15 files at a time (possibly depending on your computer), but it only takes a few seconds to do a batch.

I've truncated about 300 of my 500 IRs on a cheap laptop in about an hour. It would have taken days manually. In other words it wouldn't have gotten done without a batch processor.

Stephen Cole

 

[fremen]

Wow, I can't believe this important thread didn't get a single post in one month :shock:

I didn't tried the IR Mixer yet, as I've just started auditioning the Big Box IRs so I don't have a precise formula to share. But so far, for the Marshall A (G12 speakers), I like combining a C414 cap 3 inch for the bite with a M160 or R121 cone edge 1 inch for the low/low mids. Replacing the C414 by a SM57 I get even more bite

My main user IR for hi gain rhythm and lead, using a Brown amp model, is still a Mesa oversized IR I found somewhere on the net (yes, Mesa speaker with a Marshall model, I know, ). So far, I didn't found the same amount of low end in any Big Box IR, like in the stock 4x12 V30 IR for example. I tested all cone edge position 0/1 inch with R121 and M160 mics for every 4x12 speaker. The Orange one seems to have more low end, but not enough for my taste, and is more scooped. Or did I miss something ? What are everyone favorite Red Wirez IR for a that big fat metal low end ? Or should I wait for a new 4x12 model, like a Mesa Oversized ?

Of course I can combine a non-Red Wirez IR (like Clawfinger's D112 porthole, lol) with a Red Wirez IR to have the amount of low end I like, but I would prefer to avoid that

 

[MSS]

So far my favorite cab is not a mix but a stock Red Wirez 1960B 421 CapEdge 0. A great all around Fratomic cab IMO.

I was looking for a great sounding high volume Fratomic cab for an Engl patch. I recorded a dry amp only signal out of the Axe into Sonar then used KeFir to preview the RW 1960B cabs. The wet Sonar Output went direct to the Fratomic. If I liked one, I cut it to 1024 and re-listened, if I still liked it, then I sent the cab to the Axe and tested at high volume. Man this is fun!

BIGBox/48 KHz-24bit/Marshall1960B-V30s/Sennheiser MD421N/Marshall1960B-V30s-421-CapEdge-0in.wav,0.70
BIGBox/48 KHz-24bit/Marshall1960B-V30s/Ambient Mics/Marshall1960B-V30s-KM84-BackCab-3in.wav,0.06
BIGBox/48 KHz-24bit/Marshall1960B-V30s/Neumann KM84/Marshall1960B-V30s-KM84-CapEdge-3in.wav,0.07
BIGBox/48 KHz-24bit/Marshall1960B-V30s/Ambient Mics/Marshall1960B-V30s-KM84-Stereo-Room.wav,0.07

-Mike

 

[BrianCarroll]

For my hi-gain stuffs, I use the Mesa Rectifier 4x12 (V30) with the 5150 and the Marshall 1960A 4x12 (G12M) with the Recto (Orange, Red and New) - both with SM57 Cap Edge 0". Sometimes I mix them with a R121 Cap 1" to add a big, fat lo-end.

 

[javajunkie]

Please note that the program will only convert 10 or 15 files at a time (possibly depending on your computer), but it only takes a few seconds to do a batch.

I've truncated about 300 of my 500 IRs on a cheap laptop in about an hour. It would have taken days manually. In other words it wouldn't have gotten done without a batch processor.

Stephen Cole

I've just been limiting the length in my convolution program, but having them predone is helpful.

 

[matchless]

Please note that the program will only convert 10 or 15 files at a time (possibly depending on your computer), but it only takes a few seconds to do a batch.

I've truncated about 300 of my 500 IRs on a cheap laptop in about an hour. It would have taken days manually. In other words it wouldn't have gotten done without a batch processor.

Stephen Cole

I've just been limiting the length in my convolution program, but having them predone is helpful.

There are truncated (1024 samples) versions offered as an update @ redwires. Does these differ from truncating them yourselves?

Mike

 

[iaresee]

There are truncated (1024 samples) versions offered as an update @ redwires. Does these differ from truncating them yourselves?

Mike

If you're doing it right: nope. Should be the same result.

As for this thread and mixing: I have to admit I haven't really played with mixing. I need to do some cab-free clips to play with in my DAW. Some day...for now I'm really enjoying the P12N cab. Just picked up the Weber SpeakerBox set to try out. I want to see if it brightens things up mixed in with the CabBox Blue cab.

 

[SparkyG]

Here are one of Mine, based on Scott's-


For My JCM 800 and Plexi patches:


BIGBox\48 KHz-24bit\Marshall1960A-G12Ms\Ambient Mics\Marshall1960A-G12Ms-KM84-Room-R.wav,0.10
BIGBox\48 KHz-24bit\Marshall1960A-G12Ms\Ambient Mics\Marshall1960A-G12Ms-KM84-Room-L.wav,0.10
BIGBox\48 KHz-24bit\Marshall1960A-G12Ms\Royer R121\Marshall1960A-G12Ms-R121-Cone-6in.wav,0.50
BIGBox\48 KHz-24bit\VoxAC30Blues\Ambient Mics\VoxAC30Blues-KM84-Room-L.wav,0.10
BIGBox\48 KHz-24bit\VoxAC30Blues\Shure SM7\VoxAC30Blues-SM7-CapEdge-1in.wav,0.20

and

BIGBox\48 KHz-24bit\Marshall1960A-G12Ms\Ambient Mics\Marshall1960A-G12Ms-KM84-Room-R.wav,0.10
BIGBox\48 KHz-24bit\Marshall1960A-G12Ms\Ambient Mics\Marshall1960A-G12Ms-KM84-Room-L.wav,0.10
BIGBox\48 KHz-24bit\VoxAC30Blues\Ambient Mics\VoxAC30Blues-KM84-Room-L.wav,0.10
BIGBox\48 KHz-24bit\VoxAC30Blues\Shure SM7\VoxAC30Blues-SM7-CapEdge-1in.wav,0.70