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Red Wire Cab Marshall Cab "Formula" Suggestions

kev

Inspired
I'm doing the same for live use where I just want to fit or cut through the band mix with minimal eq. After trying many combonations, the 57 on a single speaker, usually at the cap-edge position works best for me also. It's no wonder it's been done that way for so long, and it always sounds great. It doesn't always sound the best on it's own but in the context of the band's mix it almost always works.

All bets are off when it comes to recording though. Mixing, matching, using different cabs and mics and positions, and room mics. I almost never use the same combonation for another song. I always record without the cab sims and then apply them during the mix.
 

Scott Peterson

Global Moderator
Moderator
kev said:
I'm doing the same for live use where I just want to fit or cut through the band mix with minimal eq. After trying many combonations, the 57 on a single speaker, usually at the cap-edge position works best for me also. It's no wonder it's been done that way for so long, and it always sounds great. It doesn't always sound the best on it's own but in the context of the band's mix it almost always works.

All bets are off when it comes to recording though. Mixing, matching, using different cabs and mics and positions, and room mics. I almost never use the same combonation for another song. I always record without the cab sims and then apply them during the mix.
+1

Well wrapped up 100%.
 

dk_ace

Veteran
I spent the last two days upgrading firmware and building new patches. I am still using stock cabs for now, but I used the SM57 on every one (was previously using the Royer 121 most of the the time). I like the results better this way. I'm testing them at volume with a band tonight, but my experience tells me these patches are going to fit perfectly in the mix. I love the warm sound of the 121, but I was not completely pleased with how it worked in a live band context.

When I saw Pete Thorn's post about the gig on A&E I saw he was using the close miced SM57 for basically everything. It reminded me how well that worked in a band before I had the Axe-FX. I went back to it on this round of patches, and so far I'm really happy with the results. On it's own, I'm not impressed, but in a band mix it just works.

D
 

Scott Peterson

Global Moderator
Moderator
dk_ace said:
I spent the last two days upgrading firmware and building new patches. I am still using stock cabs for now, but I used the SM57 on every one (was previously using the Royer 121 most of the the time). I like the results better this way. I'm testing them at volume with a band tonight, but my experience tells me these patches are going to fit perfectly in the mix. I love the warm sound of the 121, but I was not completely pleased with how it worked in a live band context.

When I saw Pete Thorn's post about the gig on A&E I saw he was using the close miced SM57 for basically everything. It reminded me how well that worked in a band before I had the Axe-FX. I went back to it on this round of patches, and so far I'm really happy with the results. On it's own, I'm not impressed, but in a band mix it just works.

D
That's exactly what and why I did the same thing. Great minds and all that, eh? ;) :D
 

mtmartin71

Veteran
yek said:
AFAIK Scott is down to just 57's now, for the most part.

Are you running stereo out, summed or copy L>R?
Does the comb effect also occur when using just a single SM57?
Did you use a stereo cab, or two separate cabs?
When using a stereo cab or two parallel cabs, you should pan the IRs L/R.

P.S 1. A few cab/SM57 combinations don't work for me. For example, the Orange sounds terrible (to me).
P.S 2. If it's too bright, try CapEdgeOffAxis 0" or Cone 1" instead.
I'm running Stereo on the I/O but in practice, I'm running Mono from the Left XLR of Output 1. If I'm using a Stereo cab block, then I pan them center for equal influence of the sounds. As far as cabs, I played around with mono cabs but didn't like having to account for yet another volume parameter to prevent the clipping. I was panning them full left and right and then it occurred to me that running stereo, only the left cab would come through. I decided to use the stereo cab for some of these. In my case, I made IRs with the R121/SM57 mix recipe so that SM57 is sitting in each part of my virtual cabs. I guess if I pan the cabs and I'm doing stereo or copy L>R, I don't understand why I'd do that because I'd have one cab that'd be less prominent. What's the point?

I agree with your P.S. 1. The SM57 sounds like poo with the Orange. I guess here's my point...the SM57-4x12-V30 sounds remind me of the sound of Tom Scholz of Boston. I can't stand that nasally sound. Sounds like a cocked wah. Every time I try to use the SM57 in some combination with any V30 4x12 cab, it causes me problems particularly on the Marshall, Mesa, and Orange cabs. On the non-V30 cabs, the SM57 in the mix sounds decent. The R121 "sounds" better to my ears on everything, but, I'm not sure if it cuts live the same way. I'll do some more testing. I just feel like I can't hear what all of you are getting so excited about. One thing to do is just try the SM57 alone and see how I feel about that set-up.
 

mtmartin71

Veteran
Never1 said:
here's my favorite IR of the basketweave G12H30s (I threw in the back of cab from Scott's formula)

BasketweaveG12H30s-C414-CapEdge-0_5in.wav,0.486
BasketweaveG12H30s-R121-CapEdge-1in.wav,0.486
BasketweaveG12H30s-TC30-Back-0in.wav,0.028

I've got this on a mesa rectifier patch w/ another cab formula and it sounds killer!!
This formula really worked nice for my V30 based RW cabs. In reading the mic description of the C414 it says it has a dip in the upper mids. The SM57 was pushing the upper mids to that nasally point for me that I didn't care for. This balances out the V30 a little more. I've left the SM57/R121 formula on the G12M, G12H30, Vox Blues and Silvers, and the Fender Twin. There, it helps punch the mids where those speakers aren't as aggressive in the upper mids like V30s are. We'll see how it comes through live this Saturday.

Thanks Never1! Your formula inspired me to look that mic up and discover it was a good match to balance the V30 a little more and still retain that rock punch. Unlike you though, I backed my mics off to 2-4 inches and put the Royer on the Cap.
 

guitarnerdswe

Forum Addict
yek said:
AFAIK Scott is down to just 57's now, for the most part.

Are you running stereo out, summed or copy L>R?
Does the comb effect also occur when using just a single SM57?
Did you use a stereo cab, or two separate cabs?
When using a stereo cab or two parallel cabs, you should pan the IRs L/R.

P.S 1. A few cab/SM57 combinations don't work for me. For example, the Orange sounds terrible (to me).
P.S 2. If it's too bright, try CapEdgeOffAxis 0" or Cone 1" instead.
Move the mic. Using the same position on every speaker/cab doesn't work. You need to find the sweet spot for every combination.
 
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