Recreating the Binson Echorec in the Axe FXIII

trancegodz

trancegodz

Fractal Fanatic
Have any of you tried to recreate the original Binson Echorec delay sounds in your Axe FXIII?
David Gilmour used one in the the early days of Pink Floyd.

I was thinking the Axe FXIII could probably easily duplicate the Binson Echorec delay settings. I am not sure what you'd need to do to recreate the unique tone or the "swell" settings of the original unit though.

The Binson are four short fixed delay times.
head 4 - 300ms
head 3 - 225ms
head 2 - 150ms
head 1 - 75ms

The original Echorec had a maximum delay time of 300ms
(This varied slightly among units, some going up as far as 330ms)

The unique twist the Binson provided was that you could engage combinations of the four playback heads - from one head to two, three, and all four heads - up to 12 different combinations were provided. And then the Swell control fed the signal from these playback heads back into the input to create a beautiful wash of repeats.

The original Echorec had a 12 position switch which controlled the various playback head configurations.

Binson Echorec Matrix
Program #1 = Head 1 = 75ms
Program #2 = Head 2 = 150ms
Program #3 = Head 3 = 225ms
Program #4 = Head 4 = 300ms
Program #5 = Heads 1 & 2 = 75ms + 150ms
Program #6 = Heads 2 & 4 = 150ms + 300ms
Program #7 = Heads 3 & 4 = 225ms + 300ms
Program #8 = Heads 1 & 3 = 75ms + 225ms
Program #9 = Heads 2 & 4 = 150ms + 300ms
Program #10 = Heads 1, 2, 3 = 75ms + 150ms + 225ms
Program #11 = Heads 2, 3, 4 = 150ms + 225ms + 300ms
Program #12 = Heads 1, 2, 3, 4 = 75ms + 150ms + 225ms + 300ms

The Catalinbread Echorec added these extra combinations:
Heads 1 & 4
Heads 1 ,2, 4
Heads 1, 3, 4

The Echorec has 3 operating modes:
ECHO: a standard slapback delay, only one repetition per writing head
REP: a classic "feedback" delay, the sound of each playback head is fed back into the input according to the value of the Delays knob. This mode is the one that was most used by Pink Floyd in the early 1970s
SWELL: works like the RIP mode, where the output of each read head is fed back into the input according to the chosen Delays, except that the overall output is the sum of all 4 read heads independent from the Delays knob. Originally, this mode was used to recreate the sound space of a small room
 
you have all the info, so why not go ahead and make it yourself? we have a quad tape delay and several 4 tap delays with different routings. if you can figure out how the individual heads interact with each other, it would then just be trying to replicate the tone of the repeats. is there a good vst/au version that can be used as a reference?
 
simeon said:
you have all the info, so why not go ahead and make it yourself? we have a quad tape delay and several 4 tap delays with different routings. if you can figure out how the individual heads interact with each other, it would then just be trying to replicate the tone of the repeats. is there a good vst/au version that can be used as a reference?
Click to expand...
I already did basic settings for the 12 delay settings I listed above, but I am not sure how the individual heads should interact with each other. In particular with the swell setting. I tried using just one delay on each. I tried using repeating delays on both delays. I tried using repeating delays on just the first delay. I tried using repeating delays on just the last delay. I am not sure which to those is actually happening on the Binson Echorec.

I had a Binson Echorec back in the sixties but I don't have it any more. I remember it had a unique tone. I have no idea on how to duplicate that.

I posted all the info I could find in case someone else might be trying to create those sounds in the Axe FXIII it might give them a good start. I am guessing there are a lot of Pink Floyd fans on the forum.
 
trancegodz said:
I am not sure what you'd need to do to recreate the unique tone or the "swell" settings of the original unit though.
Click to expand...

The swell (according to my memory of a quoted Gilmour interview) creates a “reverb” by feeding the output of each head back into itself. This aspect of the pedal should be pretty easily replicated in the AxeFX.

However, my memory may be suspect.
 
simeon said:
you have all the info, so why not go ahead and make it yourself? we have a quad tape delay and several 4 tap delays with different routings. if you can figure out how the individual heads interact with each other, it would then just be trying to replicate the tone of the repeats. is there a good vst/au version that can be used as a reference?
Click to expand...
The Audiority Echoes T7E VST is fantastic. I can try to help if @trancegodz or anyone else gears up the rest of it.

Plus, I have the Dawner Boonar and the Catalinbread Echorec as well.
 
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While the Strymon Volante I have is not a 1:1 Binson Echorec reproduction, it's based on it.

I find that the Multi-Tap Delay block with the Quad Tape Delay model can get into those places pretty well. It's just way more involved to adjust anything because the layout is complicated in both Axe-Edit and onboard UI. You most likely want to spend more time on the Master page rather than the individual delay pages.

You could also experiment with two regular Delay blocks, set to the Mono Tape model. Each has two heads.
 
here you go

i based it on the audiority version

the four heads seem to be in parallel

you can use the individual volumes in the delay block to turn the four heads on and off and use their individual feedback controls

in echo mode, each delay seems to be independent, but in swell mode, one repeat seems to be taken from each head and fed into the others

so by simply turning the levels up and down for each tap, you can get all the modes in the original unit

i noticed that the delay times in the plugin were changing slightly, so i added an lfo to wobble the times in the block a bit.

the preset is saved with only head 4 up in level

(edit) i updated the preset so that the block uses the master feedback control instead of the individual feedback controls for each tap (like the real unit). the individual ones are all set to 100%. use the master feedback control instead.
 

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simeon said:
here you go

i based it on the audiority version

the four heads seem to be in parallel

you can use the individual volumes in the delay block to turn the four heads on and off and use their individual feedback controls

in echo mode, each delay seems to be independent, but in swell mode, one repeat seems to be taken from each head and fed into the others

so by simply turning the levels up and down for each tap, you can get all the modes in the original unit

i noticed that the delay times in the plugin were changing slightly, so i added an lfo to wobble the times in the block a bit.

the preset is saved with only head 4 up in level
Click to expand...
Wow, that was fast! Did you mean to attach a preset?
 
i'm sure all the other attempts were great, but i didn't have time to listen to them. i just quite enjoy having a go. use whichever version you like the best.
 
simeon said:
btw, i'm pretty sure this has been tackled before

yeah, found this - https://forum.fractalaudio.com/thre...ulti-model-edition.177536/page-2#post-2164927

try a forum search
Click to expand...
Thanks for the mention. I have to say that block I created got pretty close in terms of eq, delay times and the way the delay lines interact each other, but the real binson had a lot more color going on even on the dry signal, it added a warm saturation I wasn't able to replicate with the drive control in the multidelay block, and also the modulation was quite fascinating and un-replicable, that's what creates that famous ethereal "aura" around the dry tone I think.

And I can confirm that the digital recreation that comes closest to that sound is the audiority plugin that I recently discovered.
 
yeah i just tried the demo, but i thought the audiority plugin was very nice

i think the preamp sections of some of these old delay units are such a part of the mojo that using a tape drive block or even the preamp stuff in the cab block with a null ir loaded is needed for the whole experience

edit - in my test of the audiority i had it running in parallel. i totally missed what effect it might have had on the dry tone.
 
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