Recordings using power amp/real cabs?

Speculum Speculorum

Speculum Speculorum

Power User
don't think I've seen anything in the recording section that wasn't direct. Occasionally you'll see somebody post camera audio from an "amp in the room".

But I'm curious if anybody is recording axe-fx II -> power amp -> real cabinet. I am running a Mesa 290 and am considering switching over to a 2u Matrix gt1000fx, so if anybody is running that particular power amp I'd be very interested to hear the sound coming right off the cab.

The reason I'm asking is because even though I'm relatively new to mic'ing up a cabinet (I've been recording direct since I bought the thing), I am finding myself really enjoying the sound/feel/tone of the real cab much more than any IR I've ever tried. I have considered making IRs for my personal use, but I don't currently have the last piece of gear (speaker level DI). I have, in fact, made a tonematch of my recent mic position, and while very similar, it's definitely lossy (definition in low end thump and high end crispiness).

So, if you've got any examples or have any particular opinion on this matter, let me hear it please.
 
I thought you were selling your axe?

Speculum Speculorum said:
Well sure. You're fully invested into this unit. I've been with it since the beginning of the axe fx 2 and have decided to sell everything and go back to a traditional rig. This thing is great but it's never going to be 100% and to some of us it's important.

I'm glad there are people who are happy because it means I will likely find a buyer sooner.
Click to expand...
 
I'm still considering it. Right now it's kind of a back and forth thing. I actually re-loaded the beta 3 and noticed a difference in sound - I kind of wonder if it wasn't a bad load before. I still prefer the sound of my axe through the mesa 290, and I'm not 100% sold on the modeling of the Axe-fx. I'm not trying to be a dick here. The axe-fx II sounds great and I've been using it for a while. But I'm just not totally sold on it. It is a matter of convenience that I keep it at this point. Also, the market is very slow and I've got the gear, so I might as well experiment a bit before giving it the true heave-ho.

And that's where I'm kind of at. I'm trying to figure out if I just like the sound of a mic on a cab significantly better than IRs, or if I like the sound of a real tube amp vs the axe-fx II modeling - regardless of if the tube amp "coloring" the tone. Like I said, I realize that lots of guys strictly record direct with the Axe-fx II. And I realize why. But I don't really like the sounds I'm getting. I've been around the block a few times with this thing and have tried MANY different IRs. I just feel like there's something lacking and lossy about the cumulation of modeling/IR path.

I would just go and buy a matrix and return it if I don't like it, but it would be nice to hear some actual close-mic'ed examples on an actual cab. Surely there have been people who have come to such a conclusion or feel they're getting the most out of their rig that way? All the examples I can find on youtube are camera audio in the room, or are from 3-4 years ago and don't represent where we are at with the current modeling. There's virtually nothing on Soundcloud either.

What is left is players claiming it sounds "just like the real thing". You do run into some detractors, however, and I'd just like to see if there's anything out there in terms of recordings utilizing this path.
 
Even if you find some clips like you are looking for, you still won't know for sure as you won't know how much of what you hear is what the Axe/Amp/Cab is responsible for versus the mic(s) mic technique, preamps, processing, etc.

It may help you some, but it may just present another set of questions.

Speculum Speculorum said:
I'm still considering it. Right now it's kind of a back and forth thing. I actually re-loaded the beta 3 and noticed a difference in sound - I kind of wonder if it wasn't a bad load before. I still prefer the sound of my axe through the mesa 290, and I'm not 100% sold on the modeling of the Axe-fx. I'm not trying to be a dick here. The axe-fx II sounds great and I've been using it for a while. But I'm just not totally sold on it. It is a matter of convenience that I keep it at this point. Also, the market is very slow and I've got the gear, so I might as well experiment a bit before giving it the true heave-ho.

And that's where I'm kind of at. I'm trying to figure out if I just like the sound of a mic on a cab significantly better than IRs, or if I like the sound of a real tube amp vs the axe-fx II modeling - regardless of if the tube amp "coloring" the tone. Like I said, I realize that lots of guys strictly record direct with the Axe-fx II. And I realize why. But I don't really like the sounds I'm getting. I've been around the block a few times with this thing and have tried MANY different IRs. I just feel like there's something lacking and lossy about the cumulation of modeling/IR path.

I would just go and buy a matrix and return it if I don't like it, but it would be nice to hear some actual close-mic'ed examples on an actual cab. Surely there have been people who have come to such a conclusion or feel they're getting the most out of their rig that way? All the examples I can find on youtube are camera audio in the room, or are from 3-4 years ago and don't represent where we are at with the current modeling. There's virtually nothing on Soundcloud either.

What is left is players claiming it sounds "just like the real thing". You do run into some detractors, however, and I'd just like to see if there's anything out there in terms of recordings utilizing this path.
Click to expand...
 
Well the tones on that one are all sorts of beefy, and that was from several years ago. I can only imagine that they're sounding even better now. Still, I wonder if anybody is recording Axe -> matrix -> cab. You know, using the axe-fx II power amp modeling. The Mesa definitely does the trick, but I'm curious if anybody is actually using a "flat" (none are really flat) SS amp for pro use.
 
If you believe the Fractal to be accurate to the real amps and you believe the IR producers to have good kit, good rooms, good mics, good consoles, and know a great deal about micing a guitar cabinet,

then the direct sound would be as good as you might expect with a real guitar cab and professional engineer in a pro studio? I would say with a real cab you would be hard pressed to top their results?

The only thing you don't get is the live feel of playing in the live room with the amp and real cabs.
 
I see what you mean, but I am still curious. When I hear my signal, for example, through the Mesa and mic'ed, there is a different punch and clarity to the signal. To my ear, anyway, it sounds much more like when I hear professionally recorded amps. I'm not saying my mic position is the best. I'm just getting started. But it is clear to me that there is something else going on in the signal than when I hear IR/DI type sounds.

I'd just like to hear a well-recorded matrix to cab recording to see if what I'm getting is speaker related, or tube related. I realize there are a ton of variables at play, but there is an identifiable "sound" to a traditional tube rig that I'm missing when I di record

But I don't think there's anybody out there who's doing that recording technique with the matrix stuff.
 
Speculum Speculorum said:
I see what you mean, but I am still curious. When I hear my signal, for example, through the Mesa and mic'ed, there is a different punch and clarity to the signal. To my ear, anyway, it sounds much more like when I hear professionally recorded amps.
Click to expand...

What you're describing I believe is the dynamic movement of the speaker when hearing a mic placed on the driver. The air pumping causes this, but when it comes to placing the guitar tracks in a mix this becomes impossible to discern. I'm not talking virtually impossible, but quite physically impossible in the way modern tracks are mixed and mastered. I personally use a flat SS power amp, but will just take impulses if recording anything because it offers the benefit of being easy to find consistency with no real drawback. The tone is there and is a tried and tested method, so I personally just get the show on the road and get things done without worrying. One thing I always always always make sure to do with impulses is to include the phase, and not choose to use MPT processing. MPT ruins things to my ears and messes up the way mids sound...this would also technically disappear in a mix but I still want the best source tone within reason.
 
clarky said:
when I record with the Axe I use the USB direct to the DAW
it just makes so much more sense than mic'ing my backline
Click to expand...

Well the good news is I picked up a used speaker level di on the even cheaper just this morning. Whirlwind direct box. So it should get here in a few days and I'll be able to run some tests.

I plan on shooting a few IRs and seeing how they compare to live recording through the Mesa. I expect differences, of course, simply because of the Mesa coloring the rig. Depending on the results I plan on doing a tone match with the IR as well.

I've been interested in shooting my own IRs as well because I can tailor the mic positron to my needs. I'm stoked to see how this goes.
 
For what is worth, with the recent firmware improvements especially, I much prefer using my matrix amp with a cab than the power section of my Engl. It sounds like a valve amp because of the magic of what the Axe Fx does. I dont need a valve power amp to get that valve goodness....and I honestly thought I would.
 
Speculum Speculorum said:
Well the good news is I picked up a used speaker level di on the even cheaper just this morning. Whirlwind direct box. So it should get here in a few days and I'll be able to run some tests.

I plan on shooting a few IRs and seeing how they compare to live recording through the Mesa. I expect differences, of course, simply because of the Mesa coloring the rig. Depending on the results I plan on doing a tone match with the IR as well.

I've been interested in shooting my own IRs as well because I can tailor the mic positron to my needs. I'm stoked to see how this goes.
Click to expand...
the thing with the IR's shot by the pro's is that they have a ton of different mic's [some very very costly]
and they have the right environment to shoot them in..
this is why I believe that I could never get better results on my own mic'ing my own cabs..
and in a pro studio, sure they could mic my real cabs.. but that then leaves me with only that tonal possibility on 'tape'

never lose sight of the fact that live and studio are completely different animals..
 
Last edited:
clarky said:
the thing with the IR's shot by the pro's is that they have a tone of different mic's [some very very costly]
and they have the right environment to shoot them in..
this is why I believe that I could never get better results on my own mic'ing my own cabs..
and in a pro studio, sure they could mic my real cabs.. but that then leaves me with only that tonal possibility on 'tape'

never lose sight of the fact that live and studio are completely different animals..
Click to expand...

Oh sure. My room is actually a fairly good place though. A bit small, but well-treated enough so that I don't feel it's detrimental to the sounds I'm getting out of mic'ing my cab. Forty bucks for a test doesn't bother me much though. So if it's a loss I'm not going to cry over spilled milk.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom