Recording with impulses.

oldstar1975

Inspired
Hi to everyone! May be its obvious, but may I ask about length of the impulse. I want to record AXE to the Logic, and I suppose that the internal impulses are too short for the quality recording, isn't it? So I will use the VST plugin with impulses, so the main question is - that the difference between wav impulses with 500 ms length (72 kb 48000 Hz) and the IR impulses for Cab Lab plugin (33 kb). Is there some difference between them for recording? Which length optimal for it? Thanks in advance!
 
All of our impulses are shot with 500 ms length. There is no hardware unit at the moment, that can handle it, but you can load the 500 ms impulses into every IR-plugin player available. Even the Axefx2 is "only" capable of 170ms length (I think this is long enough for close mic applications)
 
All of our impulses are shot with 500 ms length. There is no hardware unit at the moment, that can handle it, but you can load the 500 ms impulses into every IR-plugin player available. Even the Axefx2 is "only" capable of 170ms length (I think this is long enough for close mic applications)
Do you mean that IR-plugin player in the Logic can operate longer impulses than 170 ms in Axe? That's that Im asking - shall I get the better quality with 200 or 500 ms length in compare with standard Axe FX impulses?
 
IR-Player plugins can handle even more than 500 ms. It's just the question, if you want to use it for guitars.
IMHO you would get better results by using a good IR of a room and combine it with the close mic guitars by taste. You get better mix results and less phase issues. I'm still not very convinced of using very long cab IR's .
We are working on stuff in this direction, but you can "place" the guitar better in the mix, when using a good room Ir-reverb.
But that's just my taste. I want the guitars jump right in your face...so I love close mic IRs.
 
The Axe-FX Ultra-Res 2.0 impulses operate at 170 ms with some data compression so they are less taxing on the processor. They sound pretty convincing in a mix IMHO.

I shoot my cab pack impulses that you can find at https://www.drbonkerssoundlab.com/ at 170 ms (exclusively for the Fractal packs) as well as 200 ms, and 500 ms for the Wave packs at 96 Khz and 32 bit. I convert down from those high resolution formats so that others do not have to for the various hardware or for software sessions that are recorded at the other dominant sample/bit depth specs. Some credit must go to @ownhammer really pioneered the longer IR lengths as well as higher sample/bit depth and illustrated its benefits, so I must give a shout out and tip of the hat to Kevin for doing this work and making me a philosophical convert,

Since most hardware amp modelers' conversion tools can truncate longer impulse responses if they can't use them and the deconvoluted impulse responses don't seem to lose anything sonically in truncation too much.. There is no hardware modeler on the market yet that can make captures at 96 KHz 32 bit either at such long sweep lengths.

What is the difference of longer capture lengths versus shorter lengths? Visually, if you look at the convoluted waveforms for the various lengths at the same sample rate, when the sweep is longer in time duration, there is more information captured for both the low end and high end. Remember, it's not so much that you sweeping more frequencies beyond 20 KHz over that time duration, it's that you are taking a longer time to get there and as such the capturing apparatus is capturing more info in that time.

But can you hear a difference? In a double blind test with Mrs Bonkers selecting the same type of mic/cab combination file at 96 Khz/32bit, but just varying at different file lengths, it's not so much that you hear a bass boost or treble boost or the sudden appearance of possible room tone, but it's more about a smoother transition playing notes up and down the instrument neck, a more 3-D or realistic sound, and the low end feels more "solid" for lack of a better descriptor. Unique timbre is more identifiable when selecting different cabs too at the longer lengths with higher sample rates.

Is it a dramatic difference sonically or aurally? In my opinion it's maybe a 5% improvement when hearing it in context with other instruments.

Why do I personally chase this 5% when creating my cab packs if only DAW/emulation software standalone software jockeys can even utilize it? My feeling is that I am future-proofing my impulse response captures for the foreseeable future. At some point, someone is going to have the hardware processing power to handle longer file lengths or higher sample/bit depth rates. I do not want to have to track down and physically transport 250 lbs of SVT in a flight case to re-shoot it along with many other cabinets and spend yet another 100 to 200 hours in the shooting and cab re-mixing process on cab, if I already did work to bring to the musician public.

I wish some future version of Cab Lab would support longer lengths, higher sample rate/bit depths, and perhaps even wave file archives of the shot files, but that is not the reality at the present time.
 
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Why do I personally chase this 5% when creating my cab packs if only DAW/emulation software standalone software jockeys can even utilize it? My feeling is that I am future-proofing my impulse response captures for the foreseeable future. At some point, someone is going to have the hardware processing power to handle longer file lengths or higher sample/bit depth rates. I do not want to have to track down and physically transport 250 lbs of SVT in a flight case to re-shoot it along with many other cabinets and spend yet another 100 to 200 hours in the shooting and cab re-mixing process on cab I already did work to bring to the musician public.

I wish some future version of Cab Lab would support longer lengths, higher sample rate/bit depths, and perhaps even wave file archives of the shot files, but that is not the reality at the present time.

+1000.
If I did not know, that it is you, I would have bet to "hear" my "tech chief" Tom talking. We seem to have the same approach to our work. Time to let my bass player try some Dr. Bonkers. As we begin to mix the upcoming debut EP from my band CHAOS INSIDE, I think, we will check out some of your stuff.
 
+1000.
If I did not know, that it is you, I would have bet to "hear" my "tech chief" Tom talking. We seem to have the same approach to our work. Time to let my bass player try some Dr. Bonkers. As we begin to mix the upcoming debut EP from my band CHAOS INSIDE, I think, we will check out some of your stuff.
Thanks so much for the compliment. That would be awesome & a true honor for you to use my cab pack for bass, as I am a big fan of your work. Please do let me know what you experience when using them. The wave files for sale on my personal site have WAV file options at those sample rates. That selling of longer duration, high sample rate wave files was one of the deciding factors for me in going with my own site for these and future cab packs.

I am cautious of doing the work of tracking down, transport work, recording & mixing multiple times, if at all possible. I would also not want those musicians that bought my cab packs to have to re-buy the cab packs to recover my expenses and time, if there was something I could do to produce them in a future-proof manner in the first place. I know the act of re-buying things in a certain sense drives people crazy.
 
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