Recording Question

J

JDWhite

Inspired
Hi All,

I have a question about Hard Rock recordings. I am using Quantum on the AXE FX II.

While I can get good sounding recordings when I record more mellow stuff (Good sounding bass, guitars, etc..)

When It comes to Hard Rock/Metal....I just suck.

I know this comes down to me not knowing what I am doing. I do understand that you have to cut freqs in the mix, etc......I do have FRFR monitors and all of the recording goodies, I am mainly looking for a decent "plug in and play" sort of idea/template.

My question is: Do you guys have patches already saved in the AXE that already sound good (pre-production) or do you just record the raw amp, with no coloring, into the DAW and work on the guitar sound in there (post)?

I think that my main problem is that, since the AXE is so real sounding, it actually takes a fair amount of skill to get it right in the mix because the sounds are so raw. I do get lucky sometimes, but it is just that, luck, and I would rather figure out how to have a good recording template that I can just turn on and play with minor tweaks, than hours of frustration.

If anyone does do it pre-production, would you mind sharing a Quantum patch so I could analyze the frequencies, amp, cabinet, etc..... that you are using? and possibly which bass setup in the axe you might use?

I know this is a very broad question, and a million variables will affect the outcome, but I just need a nice clean metal sounding (pan left and right) tone that I can analyze and learn from as, when I record now, it gets so frustrating trying to get a decent mix, that I don't even want to play anymore. I don't mind the mix part of it and actually enjoy the science behind it, but I think I am so far off base most times, that I need to bring it back in to basics.

Thanks for any help/advice

JD
 
Hi,

I'm hardly an expert, but I can offer some pointers and tips that work for me atleast.
Some basic stuff that I and a lot of other guys do is (and feel free to tell me to fuck off if this is too basic haha):

In the AXE:

* Don't spend hours tweaking, you will get ear-fatigue and lose touch with your original idea of what the guitars should sound like. Just set up an amp (Friedman HBE is hard to go wrong with for metal), and spend a couple minutes finding a cab you like. Then do minor tweaks to the basic EQ if you feel like you need it (the HBE sounds awesome at all-stock settings).
* If you can't find a tone you like with that setup, try to change amp or cab instead of tweaking advanced settings all night. :)
* Try to have as little distortion as you can get away with when you record heavy guitars. When you double-track, the distortion of each track will kinda "add up". So for clarity => less distortion. If you feel like you need more distortion, try adding a bit of treble/presence instead.
* You'll generally need less bass, and more mids + treble than you think in your guitars.

In the DAW:

* Cut lows to leave room for bass/kick. I generally cut lows with a highpass-filter somewhere between 80 and 110 Hz, and highs somewhere between 7K and 10K.
* Then i go in with a surgical EQ (narrow Q) and try to find and eliminate "annoying harsh frequencies". I generally find a lot of them around 1.7-2.5K, around 3.5-4K, and around 5-6K.
* There may be a lot of muddy crap around 250-500Hz, which i usually get rid of with a bit broader-Q EQ.

And that's basically how I do basic guitar sounds. There's nothing wrong with doing a lot of post-processing to your heavy guitars, if it gets you where you need to go.

For bass, i usually have an Axe-patch with 2 amps, one for the "bassy" part of the bass sound (clean, not distorted), and one amp with crunch/distortion. In the DAW i usually compress the living crap out of the "bassy" bass so that it stays very even in volume, and treat the distorted bass like i treat the heavy guitars (cut lows, find annoying freqs, etc). I might cut some low-mids in the bassy bass as well if it won't "sit" right.

There are some other more "advanced" tips you can try, like throwing a multiband compressor on the guitars to tame the low-end of palm-mutes, and side-chain a compressor to the snare drum so that the guitars are "ducked" by a couple of db on every snare hit (do same for bassy bass, with a compressor sidechained to kick).

I'm at the office now so i don't have access to any example patches or anything but i can try to upload some later. Also: check out this guy on youtube: https://www.youtube.com/user/laymyscars his metal mixing guides are good (a little over the top with processing at times, but you get teh idea).

Sorry for long post, i don't have a potato! :)

//Emil
 
emilotep said:
Hi,

I'm hardly an expert, but I can offer some pointers and tips that work for me atleast.
Some basic stuff that I and a lot of other guys do is (and feel free to tell me to fuck off if this is too basic haha):

In the AXE:

* Don't spend hours tweaking, you will get ear-fatigue and lose touch with your original idea of what the guitars should sound like. Just set up an amp (Friedman HBE is hard to go wrong with for metal), and spend a couple minutes finding a cab you like. Then do minor tweaks to the basic EQ if you feel like you need it (the HBE sounds awesome at all-stock settings).
* If you can't find a tone you like with that setup, try to change amp or cab instead of tweaking advanced settings all night. :)
* Try to have as little distortion as you can get away with when you record heavy guitars. When you double-track, the distortion of each track will kinda "add up". So for clarity => less distortion. If you feel like you need more distortion, try adding a bit of treble/presence instead.
* You'll generally need less bass, and more mids + treble than you think in your guitars.

In the DAW:

* Cut lows to leave room for bass/kick. I generally cut lows with a highpass-filter somewhere between 80 and 110 Hz, and highs somewhere between 7K and 10K.
* Then i go in with a surgical EQ (narrow Q) and try to find and eliminate "annoying harsh frequencies". I generally find a lot of them around 1.7-2.5K, around 3.5-4K, and around 5-6K.
* There may be a lot of muddy crap around 250-500Hz, which i usually get rid of with a bit broader-Q EQ.

And that's basically how I do basic guitar sounds. There's nothing wrong with doing a lot of post-processing to your heavy guitars, if it gets you where you need to go.

For bass, i usually have an Axe-patch with 2 amps, one for the "bassy" part of the bass sound (clean, not distorted), and one amp with crunch/distortion. In the DAW i usually compress the living crap out of the "bassy" bass so that it stays very even in volume, and treat the distorted bass like i treat the heavy guitars (cut lows, find annoying freqs, etc). I might cut some low-mids in the bassy bass as well if it won't "sit" right.

There are some other more "advanced" tips you can try, like throwing a multiband compressor on the guitars to tame the low-end of palm-mutes, and side-chain a compressor to the snare drum so that the guitars are "ducked" by a couple of db on every snare hit (do same for bassy bass, with a compressor sidechained to kick).

I'm at the office now so i don't have access to any example patches or anything but i can try to upload some later. Also: check out this guy on youtube: https://www.youtube.com/user/laymyscars his metal mixing guides are good (a little over the top with processing at times, but you get teh idea).

Sorry for long post, i don't have a potato! :)

//Emil
Click to expand...
Hi Emil,

Thanks very much for this help. Basic is exactly what I need.

When I get a chance, I will try everything you said. I have not tried the Friedman yet.

Thank you again for being so informative. I am looking forward to trying this.

Speak to you soon with my results.

JD
 
Just as a side note. Search around online for guitar stems from bands you tend to lean towards and listen to what those guitars actually sound like isolated. You'd be surprised at how they actually sound when pulled out of a mix context. It will in the least give you an idea of what your isolated tracks should kind of sound like. Obviously every recording is different so no two mixes are identical, but it will give you a good idea. You'll be shocked at how different they sound when isolated.
 
JDWhite said:
Hi Emil,

Thanks very much for this help. Basic is exactly what I need.

When I get a chance, I will try everything you said. I have not tried the Friedman yet.

Thank you again for being so informative. I am looking forward to trying this.

Speak to you soon with my results.

JD
Click to expand...

Cool! I'm excited to hear some stuff from you! :)

I'll try to upload some example-mix and stems when I have time.

Happy recording! :)
 
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