Recommendations on IEM

[unix-guy]

I know there's been many threads here on IEM but here is another one

So, the band is getting ready to take the IEM plunge, and we have no experience using them except for our new bassist who already owns UE500s.

I'd like some recommendations on a range of in ear as well as wireless transmitters/receivers.

For a couple of us (myself and the other guitarist) we would consider spending up to $500-600 on the in ears, while the others would probably be in the $150-$300 range.

As far as the wireless, probably looking at the $300-500 range.

I was looking at the Carvin EM900, which at $400 seems like it might be a good entry point for the more low-budget band members, but this comment in the description makes me wonder if I should be concerned, or if this is not something to care about:

The EM901 receiver offers a personal pan control that facilitates the mix of two signals - either mono or stereo. As a result, each performer can adjust a 2 channel mix in their ears. The mix will always have a minimum of 20% of the other side of the stereo mix, and can not be panned to listen to just one of the two channels without hearing a minimum of 20% of the other channel.​

As I'm sure those of you who are very familiar with IEM can attest, this isn't cheap to get into and we don't want to spend money on something that doesn't work... But we're not making a profit from music, so whatever we get has to be worth the expense, and for a couple possible $500-$600 total is a big deal.

Anyway, you guys give great advice, so looking forward to the input!

 

[Earl B]

I went with Ultimate Ears and very happy. The ones I got are priced higher than your budget but my rep gave me a discount that put them around your budget.
They are custom molds and they fit me perfect.
Went to a hearing aid place to get molds done. About $30-$50 for molds. Then just send them to UE.

If you would like a number to rep I used just message me.

 

[Earl B]

I will also say we built our IEM rig around a X32 which is a great piece of gear, especially for something like this.

We had to do headphone rehearsals with it and were able to build a mix from there and when we went to live performance it was 80% there.

Plus they have great iphone/iPad apps for controlling each mix. Each member can control their mix with phone...

Hope this helps. Offering info I've learned over the past 6 months.

 

[unix-guy]

Thanks - X32 is definitely what I am thinking as far as the mixing side of things.

 

[dpeterson]

Em900 is nice, our rig now has 2 of them, and been working fine. I had 3 in at one time, and one would never un-mute. Others have been great. We also have 2 Sennheiser iemG3's which are another few levels up, and in price as well.

Some things to think about:

Stereo or mono (i'll personally never go back to mono, we have 2 ears )
Mix yourself or try to tap into existing FOH. (we use our own splitter snake and X32 rack, 100% control monitors on our end).
Do you need wireless? Other alternatives are a headphone amp and some long headphone cables. Drummers dont need wireless.

There are a few other threads on this subject as it has come up a lot over the last few years.

Here's our system, the back i have a 16 channel xlr rack pass through that goes to the mixer. I did this so the wear and tear would be on the panel, not the mixer of unplugging the snake each night.

 

[s0c9]

CAVEAT: The following is for "local band" consideration, as touring pros will have a whole host of other tools and opportunities (+ co$t) open to them.

so....
long time IEM user here.. been exclusively IEM for about 2 yrs now.. and been using them for about 6 yrs both wired/wireless. Won't go into painful details of how I got to where I am (mostly trial+error+$$) but currently run a Senn G3 IEM "G-band" wireless system with 1964 Qi's.

I owned/used the Carvin for a few yrs, along with other systems including PSM200's.
The "best" advice I can give is DON'T CHEAP OUT! on wireless gear.
If you do, you'll blame "IEM's" not the "budget" gear you bought . I've seen it happen numerous times. Buy once, cry once.

1. Get a decent wireless system. The Carvin is OK for entry level (the PSM200 has been replaced with the more expensive PSM300) and is STEREO and comes with a limiter. The PSM300 is STEREO, the PSM200 is not (dual mono with a "blend" feature). I found the upper frequencies on the EM900 to be the most stable and interference free. Obviously, the more you spend, the better the quality. In other words, it's night and day when comparing the Carvin against the Senn.

2. Get MULTIPLE-DRIVER CIEM's (custom mold IEM's) as the buds that come with the systems above are mostly single driver and don't have the spread, definition nor sound stage you will likely need. Triple drivers will split the frequency ranges and give you the clarity and definition you need. Customs will also give you the seal/isolation you need. Consider it like a Squier Strat vs Fender American Standard. Both "work" but you get what you pay for. UE does have the UE7-Pro which is "voiced" for guitarists and singers. Universal fit can also work, if your ear canals are large enough. Mine are not, so the seal was lost if I opened my mouth, turned my head or sang. I settled on 1964 Ears after MUCH research.

Before buying the wireless system, determine which "band" (frequency range) is best for your area. That will be based on the number of TV stations in your area and their broadcast strength. That will determine the likelihood of interference during a gig. Sennheiser and Shure online tools that recommend which band to buy.. based on zip code.
http://www.shure.com/americas/support/tools/wireless-frequency-finder

And yes, our IEM system is also built around the X32. Works VERY well.
We use iOS and Android devices to control our OWN IEM mixes and FOH.

This thread makes a good read..
http://forum.fractalaudio.com/threads/behringer-x32-rack-for-iems.79174/

 

[unix-guy]

Thanks for the reply - especially input on the EM900s...

My opinion is stereo with us manage our own monitor mix and feeding FOH via a digital splitter. Most opinions I've read say that mono tends to lead more towards ear fatigue. Also, with a 2 guitar band (and possibly keys soon) I figure stereo separation will be very helpful in having a more listenable mix.

I think our drummer would more than likely go wired... but he also will be likely to be on the low-budget side. Since we are fully electronic (all guitars are modelers, all drums are electronic) I think isolation issues will be less of a concern and I could even see him possibly going wired with over-the-ear cans. He is somewhat deaf (eh?) and I don't think he is super concerned with a pristine mix

I think guitars, bass and vocals will be wireless and unless the (potential) keyboard player has a keytar, I don't think wireless is needed there, either!

 

[unix-guy]

CAVEAT: The following is for "local band" consideration, as touring pros will have a whole host of other tools and opportunities (+ co$t) open to them.

so....
long time IEM user here.. been exclusively IEM for about 2 yrs now.. and been using them for about 6 yrs both wired/wireless. Won't go into painful details of how I got to where I am (mostly trial+error+$$) but currently run a Senn G3 IEM "G-band" wireless system with 1964 Qi's.

I owned/used the Carvin for a few yrs, along with other systems including PSM200's.
The "best" advice I can give is DON'T CHEAP OUT! on wireless gear.
If you do, you'll blame "IEM's" not the "budget" gear you bought . I've seen it happen numerous times. Buy once, cry once.

1. Get a decent wireless system. The Carvin is OK for entry level (the PSM200 has been replaced with the more expensive PSM300) and is STEREO and comes with a limiter. The PSM300 is STEREO, the PSM200 is not (dual mono with a "blend" feature). I found the upper frequencies on the EM900 to be the most stable and interference free. Obviously, the more you spend, the better the quality. In other words, it's night and day when comparing the Carvin against the Senn.

2. Get MULTIPLE-DRIVER CIEM's (custom mold IEM's) as the buds that come with the systems above are mostly single driver and don't have the spread, definition nor sound stage you will likely need. Triple drivers will split the frequency ranges and give you the clarity and definition you need. Customs will also give you the seal/isolation you need. Consider it like a Squier Strat vs Fender American Standard. Both "work" but you get what you pay for. UE does have the UE7-Pro which is "voiced" for guitarists and singers. Universal fit can also work, if your ear canals are large enough. Mine are not, so the seal was lost if I opened my mouth, turned my head or sang. I settled on 1964 Ears after MUCH research.

Before buying the wireless system, determine which "band" (frequency range) is best for your area. That will be based on the number of TV stations in your area and their broadcast strength. That will determine the likelihood of interference during a gig. Sennheiser and Shure online tools that recommend which band to buy.. based on zip code.
http://www.shure.com/americas/support/tools/wireless-frequency-finder

And yes, our IEM system is also built around the X32. Works VERY well.
We use iOS and Android devices to control our OWN IEM mixes and FOH.

This thread makes a good read..
http://forum.fractalaudio.com/threads/behringer-x32-rack-for-iems.79174/

Definitely "local band" scenario here.

I was just checking out the 1964 Ears Qis... found it odd that they were not in the recommended list for guitars.

The PSM200 / PSM300 are Shure?

Thanks for the input!

 

[s0c9]

Definitely "local band" scenario here.

I was just checking out the 1964 Ears Qis... found it odd that they were not in the recommended list for guitars.

The PSM200 / PSM300 are Shure?

Thanks for the input!

The 1964 Qi's are bass-weighted, but I use them for both.. guitar AND bass!
Yes, PSM series are Shure.

 

[unix-guy]

The 1964 Qi's are bass-weighted, but I use them for both.. guitar AND bass!
Yes, PSM series are Shure.

Ok - cool. Do you feel like you need to compensate on your guitar tones? They appeal to me on the price/specs level.

 

[s0c9]

Ok - cool. Do you feel like you need to compensate on your guitar tones? They appeal to me on the price/specs level.

No, not at all.. plus I get the added benefit of kick/bass in the mix - to trigger from.
And when playing bass, no loss of top end, but stupid-silly bass capability on them.

Been using them for 2 yrs now, so I'm used to them. You might find them a little bassy..but you can always turn that down to taste.
I'm considering upgrading to the Adels.. not sure which right now.. A4 or A8.. need to do a few more gigs first!

 

[unix-guy]

No, not at all.. plus I get the added benefit of kick/bass in the mix - to trigger from.
And when playing bass, no loss of top end, but stupid-silly bass capability on them.

Been using them for 2 yrs now, so I'm used to them. You might find them a little bassy..but you can always turn that down to taste.
I'm considering upgrading to the Adels.. not sure which right now.. A4 or A8.. need to do a few more gigs first!

Thanks!

 

[TieDyedDevil]

Funny this came up... I was just investigating IEMs.

An online acquaintance (primarily a P&W player who does multiple sessions each week) has been using IEMs for the past 15 years. He advised me to prefer balanced-armature IEMs over dynamic IEMs, saying that the BA IEMs make him better able to pick his guitar out of a dense mix without raising the volume. Having tried a number of different products, he's a staunch fan of the Shure IEMs (he says that the SE315 offers the best bang for the buck within the Shure product line), but suggests checking out the relatively inexpensive MEElectronics A151 (check Amazon.com) if you want to hear for yourself the kind of clarity and freedom from distortion that's a hallmark of BA drivers. He also advised that a tight seal is important for proper isolation and bass response. Try the universal sleeves before investing in a custom mold.

I have nothing to offer regarding wired/wireless body packs. It seems that a limiter would be a good feature to have for the sake of hearing protection. Beyond that I'm clueless.

 

[unix-guy]

Funny this came up... I was just investigating IEMs.

An online acquaintance (primarily a P&W player who does multiple sessions each week) has been using IEMs for the past 15 years. He advised me to prefer balanced-armature IEMs over dynamic IEMs, saying that the BA IEMs make him better able to pick his guitar out of a dense mix without raising the volume. Having tried a number of different products, he's a staunch fan of the Shure IEMs (he says that the SE315 offers the best bang for the buck within the Shure product line), but suggests checking out the relatively inexpensive MEElectronics A151 (check Amazon.com) if you want to hear for yourself the kind of clarity and freedom from distortion that's a hallmark of BA drivers. He also advised that a tight seal is important for proper isolation and bass response. Try the universal sleeves before investing in a custom mold.

I have nothing to offer regarding wired/wireless body packs. It seems that a limiter would be a good feature to have for the sake of hearing protection. Beyond that I'm clueless.

The A151s might be a good budget option... Oddly, I had also seen a post about the brand, but it advised to be very careful to only purchase the ones listed as "sold and distributed by Amazon". Apparently a big counterfeit issue...

For my own personal use, I am pretty certain I will be getting custom molded... but others in the band may not.

 

[unix-guy]

Additional question: what are you guys using as a splitter for FOH?

Trying to stay on a budget, I am thinking the ART S8 (or possibly 2)...

 

[zionplayer]

2 Art S8's along with an X32 rack and Art Headamp pro 6 for my wired IEM users (drums and 2 keys). I have the Shure PSM300 very happy with the unit. Occasional dropouts but I have always had that even with the highest end unit. Stereo mix all around. I also just got an S8 digital snake and put it and the headphone amp in a rack. Clean setup! Plus it almost doubled my outputs so I now run 24 channels to my X32 and mix some down to fit a 16 channel house system which is what I usually see in the small clubs that we play. My IEM's are Gorilla Ears 5 way that a friend told me about. Really clear sound but not in your budget range. Used to be!

 

[unix-guy]

2 Art S8's along with an X32 rack and Art Headamp pro 6 for my wired IEM users (drums and 2 keys). I have the Shure PSM300 very happy with the unit. Occasional dropouts but I have always had that even with the highest end unit. Stereo mix all around. I also just got an S8 digital snake and put it and the headphone amp in a rack. Clean setup! Plus it almost doubled my outputs so I now run 24 channels to my X32 and mix some down to fit a 16 channel house system which is what I usually see in the small clubs that we play. My IEM's are Gorilla Ears 5 way that a friend told me about. Really clear sound but not in your budget range. Used to be!

Thanks for the input!

 

[unix-guy]

Another couple questions for you guys:

How do IEMs compare to quality over-the-ear headphones? I'm hoping the quality is much better since I've struggled to get sounds that I really enjoy with headphones (I've not used any super quality headphones... but $200-ish ones).

Do you get similar Fletcher-Munson effects with IEMs as you would with FRFR cabs at gig levels? I guess I'm curious if what I hear in the IEMs will translate well from what I currently rehearse and gig with (Xitone passive wedges).

Also, anyone have experience with Alclair IEMs?

 

[Pinkycramps]

I'll add my experience so far, as I am relatively new to IEMs (about a year.) I am enjoying the knowledge in this thread.

My band used the Carvin EM900's. We have 4 sets. I got them on sale at $350 each. We run them through a Allen and Heath QU-24, which has 3 individual stereo mixes and a bunch (like 10 or something) mono mixes. We each have control over our own mix via iPhone/iPad apps as well. We run click tracks, backing tracks, vocal count in cues, and all sorts of stuff in our ears.

I have just recently (within a couple of weeks) stopped using my CLR's. I always had them running in front of me for extra "feel", or so I could pull out an IEM and go with the monitors as a safety net. I've never been comfortable with the IEMs. The sound is always kind of muffled, and not really enjoyable for me. BUT... I have been using the stock Carvin ear buds that came with the system. As such, I can make no comment on higher end ear buds or custom molds since I have yet to experience them.

I can talk about the EM900 system though. I'll say that they are "ok." The sound quality of them when tested with a variety of studio headphones is so-so. I plug the headphones into the board direct and listen to a track, (in a quiet room) and then listen to the same track with the same headphones through the EM 900's and there is a very noticeable change in sound quality, just from the receiver alone. The sound gets "dull" and clarity is lost. Also, I do get some radio interference at times from my guitar wireless or if I get to close to the mixer and laptop at rehearsal. I am definitely getting what I paid for. At $350 total investment per system, I can't expect too much, but I do have an acceptably functioning system. It wasn't fast, easy or painless though.

After MUCH trying and experimenting with my mix, I have finally gotten to a point where it is usable and I can get the job done. In fact, I now prefer it to not having them in, and I can hear the individual instruments and voices more clearly than I can in the room on monitors. I can hear myself very clearly now. That said, I know it can get much better if and when I upgrade to a better system, which is coming soon for me. I just want and need more clarity, separation and bass in my ears.

One thing that I did that actually helped things a bit for me was I added just a touch of room reverb to my mix. The sound was just so flat and dry, that I hated it. It had no feel to it, and it's not fun to listen to. Sounds just like completely dry, unprocessed recorded tracks. (That's just what it is really.) Without the natural reverb and blend of the room, it's just not as nice to hear, so I recreated that with a small room reverb from our board just for my IEM mix. I had to do some EQ work on my mix too, which is to be expected. Overall, the Carvin EM900 system works, and for $350 it was a good value. I am looking forward to getting a higher end system like a Sen, and some 1964's in a few months.

 

[Pinkycramps]

I'll add:
No Fletch/Mun effect with IEM's. The volume is very controlled and reduced. It's more like playing at home on headphones.

Over the ear don't have the same isolation as the in ear systems, you will still get tons of bleed from stage volume and drums, which can make getting the perfect mix much harder to do. I've used them at practice, and I don't really like it. That's me though. Seems to work for Paul Gilbert...