Recent experience with Axe-Fx III and concerns

Snouttrout said:
This could actually be the problem. I considered it, but not seriously until you mentioned it.

My JBLs sound great at home, but the PA is in the rehearsal garage.

I think I’ll take the PA home and try play loudly and see if it sounds better. Thanks
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It’s definitely worth a try. In the typical home listening situation, there can be midbass or low-mid resonances that flesh out your tone, leading you to dial them out of your sound. That can leave things sounding thin when you’re in a different room that doesn’t have those resonances.
 
I have found my JBLs have a very sharp top end. I went into their eq settings and pulled the top right down which helped a bit.
 
Snouttrout said:
I received my Axe FX 3 nearly a week ago and I've a had a chance to use it in a few different scenarios.

I essentially turned the cabinet modeling off.

I had programmed with my JBL monitors with the suggested EQ. This sounded like garbage.

CONCERNS:

1. I am concerned that if the AXE sounds bad through my PA, then I will sound bad on other PAs.
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If you turned cab modeling off so that your tone sounded great though a real 4x12 cabinet, then it will sound like garbage through a Direct Feed.

Leave cab modeling on.

Create a signal chain that allows a split off for output 1, that does not include the cab block. Make sure Output 2 includes the cab block.

Input 1 -------- wah------drive1-------amp1 ----------chorus--------delay---------reverb---***---Cab1--output2 - connect XLR to your PA

But, then also split off from the reverb onto another column on the grid, into Output1. connect your real amp and cab to this output with 1/4" cables.

Again, leave cab modeling on.

You'll have a little bit of weirdness because of power amp modeling, until you get the Matrix power amp.

Rinse, and repeat.
 
I notice differences between my CLRs, the various stage monitors we usually have and the house PA, but it never sounds like garbage. If that PA is decent and you've got it set right it should sound pretty good. Good luck.
 
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Randy4Guitars said:
I notice differences between my CLRs, the various stage monitors we usually have and the house PA, but it never sounds like garbage. If that PA is decent and you've got it set right it should sound pretty good. Good luck.
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If the PA is decent. And the room is decent...and the sound guy is decent, and... :)

But yes, a tone that's good in one decent PA will be good in all decent PAs.
 
Rex said:
It’s definitely worth a try. In the typical home listening situation, there can be midbass or low-mid resonances that flesh out your tone, leading you to dial them out of your sound. That can leave things sounding thin when you’re in a different room that doesn’t have those resonances.
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This!

I'd carry the monitors to the rehearsal space or the PA to the room with your monitors and compare them to each other to understand the differences.

Keep in mind too that volume levels make a HUGE difference and that likely the tones you dialed up at a reasonable level in your studio will sound VERY different at gig or practice volumes!

Additionally, when the band starts playing you may realize that perfectly dialed patch isn't that perfect after all! The final tweak usually involves playing in a band context and seeing what works. You can use the looper at the beginning of your patch and make adjustments to keep your hands free.

I have a pair of those EVs, and they sound GREAT!! Well I have the non-powered version and use them with a matrix 1000, played quite a few gigs with them and they rock!
 
rodzimguitar68 said:
If you turned cab modeling off so that your tone sounded great though a real 4x12 cabinet, then it will sound like garbage through a Direct Feed.

Leave cab modeling on.

Create a signal chain that allows a split off for output 1, that does not include the cab block. Make sure Output 2 includes the cab block.

Input 1 -------- wah------drive1-------amp1 ----------chorus--------delay---------reverb---***---Cab1--output2 - connect XLR to your PA

But, then also split off from the reverb onto another column on the grid, into Output1. connect your real amp and cab to this output with 1/4" cables.

Again, leave cab modeling on.

You'll have a little bit of weirdness because of power amp modeling, until you get the Matrix power amp.

Rinse, and repeat.
Click to expand...

I should have been more clear. I setup two different outputs.

Output 1 with cab block off to external power amp to Mesa 412 cab

Output 2 with cab block on direct to PA.

Because of some of the suggestions from you guys, I checked my JBL monitors and the volume was only 1/4 max, so increased the volume and played my presets, and they sounded overly bright with my EQ settings. I think I need a darker cab block. This would explain why it sounded good through my real cab and not the PA.

I tried the Petrucci Rig again and that sounded MUCH better than my preset through my JBLs at loud volume. So I copied the Petrucci preset and set up scenes in a way that I prefer. I’m going to try to learn what I’m doing wrong from that. (That Mark 2c+ bright model EQ looks complicated!)

I don’t usually bother with factory presets because of my experience with other modelers as they aren’t normally usable.
These presets on the Axe really great though.

Any suggestions on a darker 412v30 Mesa Cab IR that will work well with the JP2C?
 
Snouttrout said:
I should have been more clear. I setup two different outputs.

Output 1 with cab block off to external power amp to Mesa 412 cab

Output 2 with cab block on direct to PA.

Because of some of the suggestions from you guys, I checked my JBL monitors and the volume was only 1/4 max, so increased the volume and played my presets, and they sounded overly bright with my EQ settings. I think I need a darker cab block. This would explain why it sounded good through my real cab and not the PA.

I tried the Petrucci Rig again and that sounded MUCH better than my preset through my JBLs at loud volume. So I copied the Petrucci preset and set up scenes in a way that I prefer. I’m going to try to learn what I’m doing wrong from that. (That Mark 2c+ bright model EQ looks complicated!)

I don’t usually bother with factory presets because of my experience with other modelers as they aren’t normally usable.
These presets on the Axe really great though.

Any suggestions on a darker 412v30 Mesa Cab IR that will work well with the JP2C?
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https://axechange.fractalaudio.com/detail.php?cab=625
This is a 2x12 made by Leon Todd for the JP2c...give it a shot!
 
It's all about the fletcher-munson thing. People easily get the theory but forget what it means in the real world.
You can buy gear that emits a flat response curve, but that is no guaranty you come to hear a flat response curve when you only pay enough. The curve you hear depends on the volume. So gear is just one half of the equation and you can't buy the other half. There's no point in putting big amounts of money in one half and forget about the other half. However enterprises might tell you that you can just buy all of it....well, it's their job to do that.
 
666was999 said:
It's all about the fletcher-munson thing. People easily get the theory but forget what it means in the real world.
You can buy gear that emits a flat response curve, but that is no guaranty you come to hear a flat response curve when you only pay enough. The curve you hear depends on the volume. So gear is just one half of the equation and you can't buy the other half. There's no point in putting big amounts of money in one half and forget about the other half. However enterprises might tell you that you can just buy all of it....well, it's their job to do that.
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I remember my first real lesson with the Flethcher-munson effect. I had just bought a Peavey amp and I dialed a tone with scooped mids and pushed highs with lots of bass at low volume. It sounded great. Then, I took the amp to rehearsal, and it sounded terrible. So I asked a few guys at the forums and they actually suggested doing the opposite with the EQ. So I boosted the mids and cut the highs and lows, and the amp came alive. The mid-range was the secret ingredient. So I have never forgotten that lesson. The major difference now is that I have to take into account different IR, whereas I would use a pair of Genz G-Flex cabs with old Peavey (so that variable wasn't changing). One other thing is that the Mesa Boogie amps are nothing like the amps I'm used to using, so there's a learning curve there as well. Most folks recommend using the classic V shape on the graphic EQ for the Mark 2C+ and JP2C amps for a good metal tone. I haven't tried those kinds of settings with a band yet, so I'll have to see how that plays out, even without cab IR. Lots to learn here!
 
I believe in the KISS principal. If you're dialing in your presets at a decent level and like the tones you're getting at home but don't like it live, I'd use the global EQ to dial it in
 
brianv4 said:
I believe in the KISS principal. If you're dialing in your presets at a decent level and like the tones you're getting at home but don't like it live, I'd use the global EQ to dial it in
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That might work.

My way is to use some basic tones that I know they work for rehearse and stage as an orientation Whenever I design a new preset or make big chages I compare it with these.
 
jon said:
This!

I'd carry the monitors to the rehearsal space or the PA to the room with your monitors and compare them to each other to understand the differences.

Keep in mind too that volume levels make a HUGE difference and that likely the tones you dialed up at a reasonable level in your studio will sound VERY different at gig or practice volumes!

Additionally, when the band starts playing you may realize that perfectly dialed patch isn't that perfect after all! The final tweak usually involves playing in a band context and seeing what works. You can use the looper at the beginning of your patch and make adjustments to keep your hands free.

I have a pair of those EVs, and they sound GREAT!! Well I have the non-powered version and use them with a matrix 1000, played quite a few gigs with them and they rock!
Click to expand...

I agree. I use a single EV ZLX-12P (sometimes two) as my 'backline' at rehearsal and in small clubs, and they sound great. They're a little bass heavy at low volumes, so you definitely have to dial in band presets at band volume. Once you get them up at band volume, they open up. I leave the EQ (on the EV speaker) completely flat, run it's volume at 0 db, and adjust volume with the output knob on the Axe-FX III. There are some other settings on that ZLX-12P as well; I'm not at home, but I want to say I run it at 'Monitor' and 'Live'.

Here's a video of my band doing a Fastway song at a club a few weeks ago. I had a ZLX-12P behind me for stage volume, and the rest was the house PA. Best band sound I've ever had. I think I had high cut at around 6800 and low cut around 125 or 130. My cab block was a mix of 4 different stock cabs. The cab is very important - it has a huge impact on the sound of a preset.



By the way, I was also using the pitch block to pitch down a half step (and my guitar was already at E flat). That Fastway stuff is pretty high for a singer!
 
JD_ said:
I agree. I use a single EV ZLX-12P (sometimes two) as my 'backline' at rehearsal and in small clubs, and they sound great. They're a little bass heavy at low volumes, so you definitely have to dial in band presets at band volume. Once you get them up at band volume, they open up. I leave the EQ (on the EV speaker) completely flat, run it's volume at 0 db, and adjust volume with the output knob on the Axe-FX III. There are some other settings on that ZLX-12P as well; I'm not at home, but I want to say I run it at 'Monitor' and 'Live'.

Here's a video of my band doing a Fastway song at a club a few weeks ago. I had a ZLX-12P behind me for stage volume, and the rest was the house PA. Best band sound I've ever had. I think I had high cut at around 6800 and low cut around 125 or 130. My cab block was a mix of 4 different stock cabs. The cab is very important - it has a huge impact on the sound of a preset.



By the way, I was also using the pitch block to pitch down a half step (and my guitar was already at E flat). That Fastway stuff is pretty high for a singer!
Click to expand...

whoo that sounds juicy! great tone and performance.
 
JD_ said:
I agree. I use a single EV ZLX-12P (sometimes two) as my 'backline' at rehearsal and in small clubs, and they sound great. They're a little bass heavy at low volumes, so you definitely have to dial in band presets at band volume. Once you get them up at band volume, they open up. I leave the EQ (on the EV speaker) completely flat, run it's volume at 0 db, and adjust volume with the output knob on the Axe-FX III. There are some other settings on that ZLX-12P as well; I'm not at home, but I want to say I run it at 'Monitor' and 'Live'.

Here's a video of my band doing a Fastway song at a club a few weeks ago. I had a ZLX-12P behind me for stage volume, and the rest was the house PA. Best band sound I've ever had. I think I had high cut at around 6800 and low cut around 125 or 130. My cab block was a mix of 4 different stock cabs. The cab is very important - it has a huge impact on the sound of a preset.



By the way, I was also using the pitch block to pitch down a half step (and my guitar was already at E flat). That Fastway stuff is pretty high for a singer!
Click to expand...


Nice job! I will probably leave my ZLX-12P in the rehearsal room, but does it give you a good representation of what you sound like through the house PA?

I’m thinking about getting a pair of Matrix FR12P cabs. Do you guys think that’s a good decision or not?
 
Snouttrout said:
Nice job! I will probably leave my ZLX-12P in the rehearsal room, but does it give you a good representation of what you sound like through the house PA?

I’m thinking about getting a pair of Matrix FR12P cabs. Do you guys think that’s a good decision or not?
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I actually think the Xitone 12 passives would probably work well with my matrix GT1000FX.

Where do you put your AxeFX when you use the ZLX?
 
Snouttrout said:
Nice job! I will probably leave my ZLX-12P in the rehearsal room, but does it give you a good representation of what you sound like through the house PA?

I’m thinking about getting a pair of Matrix FR12P cabs. Do you guys think that’s a good decision or not?
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Thanks. I always worry about that - dialing in my presets on my EV's, and not knowing what they'll sound like on a venue's PA. I dial them in loud at home, and then try them with the band using the EV's, and so far, it has always sounded great on a house PA. High cut and low cut make a big difference too - if you're in the 125 low / 6500 to (8000?) high range, you're probably going to be in the ballpark.

I can't comment on the Matrix cabs, as I haven't used them, but I've been successful with the EV's, which are a lower-end speaker.
 
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