Really At A Loss With v7

GM Arts, I know what you mean about the JCM800 being more fuzzy on top. I'm trying to duplicate an old recording I made 20+ years ago with a 200W version Marshall head in the JCM family. I realize it's a different beast even though it's in the same family, but I don't know what other model to try. Anyway, that old Marshall had this mid-range "ting" that I can't duplicate for the life of me. I think probably because the 200W power section didn't distort at all. Not until ear shattering levels anyway (and speaker blowing, ehem. Hey, I was young.) The JCM800 model is definitely more "soft fuzz" than my recording. Maybe that's how the real JCM800 sounds. Probably so. I did end up with a patch I like, even though it doesn't sound like the recording I was after. I ended up raising the dynamics and the transformer match, which softened the high end so leads feel more liquid.

I hope all this ranting helps you in some way.
 
GM Arts: Have you tried Enzos trick on the speaker page of the amp block?

He posted a thread about reducing the value of the his and low res points by 3 (not the frequency, the value). It was aimed at GT1000 users, but its worth a try with the 800 as well - maybe play with how much you reduce the figures.

I was sceptical at first for the cleans but 2 days in and I have done an "internal reset of my brain:)" and it really does make a difference. It takes that furr off the lows, some cut from the highs and makes the mids sound stronger - without actually changing the TONE of the patch.

Id definately suggest you try that on V7.
 
Wonder if these matched patches wil be about today. Looking forward to giving them a go tonight UK time if they are up in time : )
 
I'm going to try v7 today, I was a bit shattered with v6 (the new features were brilliant) because i hadn't done an upgrade in awhile and it killed my main patches with excess high end that I couldn't seem to dial out.

I actually prefer cliffs pre tone matched recto model! and since it was the main go to amp
 
I've just been messing with my own presets in 7.0
many of you will know that I'm big into tone morphing via XP's and XS's

one thing I've noticed is that my 'morphed to clean' tones are not quite so clean as before...
ok.. this is no biggie and real simple to sort out...

it does imply though that in 7.0 the preamps may be a touch hotter..

so... GM, to fix your fried JMC800, have you thought about throwing a softer signal into the amp block???
maybe try the input trim at 0.8 [or even less] to give the preamp a little less signal to get hold of...
 
Guys - l asked for help and I truly appeciate the suggestions. I've tried all of the obvious tweaks. Dialling in my amp tones has been fast and easy on every version of Ultra and AF2 firmware I've tried up to v6. Any amp that needs an excessive amount of tweaking is a clear sign to me to move on to another amp model. v7 overdriven amps are just not for me, I'm over it and will remain a very happy v6 user.

cheers all
 
dude...
before you finally switch back to 6.2, would it be possible for you to record a short clip of your JCM in 7.0
and then another when you're back in 6.2

I'm really curious to hear the difference...
 
Maybe this weekend, but I'm wary about posting a "here's what I don't like in v7" soundclip because we all know how these meanings get twisted into something else. It's easy to test though: v7 BRIT 800, reset the amp model, set a balanced tone with a bit of overdrive, humbucker neck pickup, sustain a note on the bottom string - furry mush. Possibly exactly like the real amp, although I don't recall it that way. :p
 
What this reminds me is how much harder the prior firmwares were to tweak, and that once you've worked, and worked, and worked on something and gotten it to your liking, it vanishes with the new firmware. Now you've got to literally go back to square one, not just with the amp settings but with the IR too, and the EQ'ing, as what the old firmware amp model was outputting is different now. Meanwhile, sometimes without your knowledge, there are also defective speakers, old guitar strings, cables, etc. Its no wonder everyone isn't able to appreciate all the new mojo in each new firmware. Having zero'd in, on the last firmware, on that one tone that beckons to them, its understandable that one either gets tired of tweaking from the beginning again, or isn't as lucky with the next go. But the MOJO of the new firmwares has certainly been there for me, except at first, it didn't do quite as well in a certain vein, but this was taken care of immediately by changing the strings more often. I find that if I play on them more than 10 hours then there is one particular tone that no longer works at all. Its not every tone, but especially that one early VH tone/style in particular. No doubt many other tones also suffer when the strings lose brightness and smoothness. But the reverb and the drive blocks are so much better, not to mention the amp response.

I still find IRs a pain, and the Redwirez are preferable to Ownhammer for me, since I don't like dialing out their brightness. But, I'm still admittedly a very poor tweaker, and things like block settings and combinations blow my mind, like how to get a particular flanger setting for instance, when sweeping the knobs doesn't immediately find it. FRFR makes it easier.

Really hope that eventually someone is able to clarify why your tone disappeared with Firmware 7, sincerely.
 
GM Arts said:
set a balanced tone with a bit of overdrive, humbucker neck pickup, sustain a note on the bottom string - furry mush. Possibly exactly like the real amp, although I don't recall it that way. :p
Click to expand...

Um. This is a HIGHLY subjective thing as well (balanced tone). How does it feel at defaults? The clip is better, since we can see what you dislike (even if you feel you'll be 'judged' by less affectionate forum-members). Mushy low end is pretty easily dialed out, and yes, I do remember an 800 being a little loose; especially at high MV levels. Input trim might be a little hot, back off your B+, transformer match tinker, power amp low cut will tighten. We're woefully short on what you've TRIED, rather than examples of what you don't like.

Regardless, I would suggest going back to 6.02 until you have the time to work on it. The latest stuff is not necessarily the best for everyone...there is no shame there!

R
 
Guys - I've been through dozens of firmware changes. I know what I'm doing and I understand the physics and electronics of amps. Each firmware has generally been easier to dial in, with v6 being absurdly easy *for my tastes*. I would estimate I've spent less than an hour in total on my eight v6 patches. v7 is just a major departure from the sounds I like, nothing more. I'll see if I can do a short recording over the weekend - who know - others may like my v7 tones better :p
 
GM Arts said:
Guys - I've been through dozens of firmware changes. I know what I'm doing and I understand the physics and electronics of amps. Each firmware has generally been easier to dial in, with v6 being absurdly easy *for my tastes*. I would estimate I've spent less than an hour in total on my eight v6 patches. v7 is just a major departure from the sounds I like, nothing more. I'll see if I can do a short recording over the weekend - who know - others may like my v7 tones better :p
Click to expand...

Cool. Everybody here is just trying to help.
 
I cant speak to the comparison to V6 but the feel of V7 is miles away from 5.07. I just downgraded for a quick comparison, and wow, I really felt the difference. So IMHO V7 is really worth the time that one has to out into it.

I am very intrigued by the promised tonematched presents that fractal was talking about. Really hope that they will post them soon.
 
GM - seriously try reducing the reso value in the speaker tab of the amp block by 3 points (generally there set to 5.00 ot 5.83 as default). this will cure that furry mush. Enzo has done the work here, but hes got real amps to A/B between, and its certainly got rid of some low end mush on many of my Marshall type ams.
 
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I think I have to agree with GM. V7 for me has made many amps mushy without definition and dont cut through the mixes like V6.
The cameron that was one of my go to amps, now in V7 I cant even play 5 min with it, lost all of its magic in my opinion.

I think this is basically caused by low mids souding a bit honky and the highs are much more shy now.
 
OK – here’s a clip that compares the Brit 800 models in v6 and v7. As I said in the OP, I’m not trolling or complaining. In fact I think it’s inevitable with such prolific firmware development that there’ll occasionally be changes that veer from my personal tastes.

Anyway, the clips and patches are linked below. v6 first then v7 following by a little noodling to demonstrate the bass furriness that’s bugging me. The overall fuzziness as well is something I’ve struggled with in many overdriven v7 models, so I’m very happily back on v6 for now.

Recording:
http://www.gmarts.org/audio/axefx_demo.mp3

v6 patch:
http://www.gmarts.org/audio/brit800_v6.syx

v7 patch (model was reset, includes many tweaks suggested in this thread, no AxeEdit)
http://www.gmarts.org/audio/brit800_v7.syx

Just a quick note on the recording: these patches are intended for live use, so they should sound a little muddy at low volumes. I reduced the Amp GEQ bands 125Hz and 250Hz by 3dB while recording in the attached patches for a more representative sound, but I’ve added it back into the final recording. Anyway, play with that if you want to.
 
i downloaded the v7 patch and noticed you had the master on 10. i think that's why it sounds fuzzy. i reset the amp block and put the master on 5, the gain on 5 and upped the depth a bit and compared it with your v6 clip. there is a slight tonal difference, but the mushiness is gone.

i haven't read through all of this thread, so apologies if you already tried that and didn't like it
 
Yeah, I usually keep the master high on patches on the edge of breakup, because I prefer power amp overdrive instead of preamp overdrive for these sounds. But yes, lowering the master or drive will reduce the overdrive level and tighten things up.
 
but the fuzziness you're complaining about is a direct result of having the master on 10. the trick with each new firmware update to to learn what you need to change about your own process to get the sounds you like.
 
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