Real JP2C vs Axe-Fx 3 sim comparison

[My name is mud]

Hi and thank you for your answer .
no I don’t have pulled the presence etc , the settings are equal in both products.
they both run the torpedo so even if you don’t like it , the sound got the same path , and the same ir . It seems we are going nowhere with this cause we sit in our position . I told you that the shred mode is more than a high treble setting , it add gain too ... anyway . It seems this amp won’t have any revision . Sure you can tweak it endlessly and have the sound you want ... but I thought with all these millions settings included in the axe that the basics were more “as the real amp” . I won’t doing anymore tests and things like this cause it’s useless in the end if they are not considered. I got both here , got the JP2c since it’s out .... so “opinions” or “what they say” are not enough for me , I was more hoping a “well maybe I should retry the head and the sim I have done “. John still use his head for dist hm...

 

[My name is mud]

I speak French and live in France , but yes I speak Italian too dlc . Thanks

 

[DLC86]

I speak French and live in France , but yes I speak Italian too dlc . Thanks ☺

Oops, I thought you were Italian given your name on facebook

 

[My name is mud]

I am both . My whole family is Italian and i speak Italian and French so. I am born and live in France . (And go often in Italy cause I love it )

 

[Harm]

Although I often start out trying to copy a certain sound, I always end up with the sound I like best. Often it quite differs from the original. Also, what I try to copy is mostly what I THINK I hear. Not what is the actual recorded sound. I bought a few preset packs in the past which were spot on the recorded sound but I I find the to be absolute crap because that is a sound miles away from the massive sound I thought I was hearing. Bottom line is: I just want the best guitar sound possible.
Of course I love telling ppl that my setup has nearly every amp on the planet. In the end I frankly don’t care. All that matrers is what comes out of the speakers.
This sort of discussion isn’t new. Reminds me of the discussion about the difference with the “amp in the room” and the wish that we could add crackles and hisses to imitate authenticity.
For years I had been buying stuff. The best lesson I learnt were two. One is: want Marshall sound? Buy a Marshall. Second: it doesn’t matter what the grill or headstock says, great is great.
So the question is: can you get the sounds you are looking for? And do you really care which button you have to press or dial you have to turn to get there?

Harm

 

[My name is mud]

I agree with your post . And that’s why I always have or had tube amps . I buy and sell simulators and my mesa’s still there . All is said . But yes I am happy with what we can do with the axe . I m maybe picky about this test , but as everyone seems to be ultra geek in fractal team talking about resistance and circuit all day , and with these tons of very geek settings Included , I m pretty surprised that the basic of the real amps are not there . I prefer to have one page of settings that are exactly like the real amp , and visually work the same as the real head , better than 5 pages and in the end .... less is more as some people say . This product don’t exist yet .

 

[FractalAudio]

I agree with your post . And that’s why I always have or had tube amps . I buy and sell simulators and my mesa’s still there . All is said . But yes I am happy with what we can do with the axe . I m maybe picky about this test , but as everyone seems to be ultra geek in fractal team talking about resistance and circuit all day , and with these tons of very geek settings Included , I m pretty surprised that the basic of the real amps are not there . I prefer to have one page of settings that are exactly like the real amp , and visually work the same as the real head , better than 5 pages and in the end .... less is more as some people say . This product don’t exist yet .

You have that. On the front panel go to Settings->Global Settings and set Tone Control Display to Authentic. In the editor use the Authentic page. All the controls match the amp exactly. The only difference is, as stated before, the taper of the Graphic EQ sliders. Use your ears for these.

 

[Sean Ashe]

I’ve had no trouble matching my JP2C, even with no tone match, but the biggest thing was getting the sliders right and the master volume. If I may make a suggestion it would be to change the impedance until you find one that reminds you of the captor. I always switch to one of the Marshall style 412 if I’m comparing to anything in a two notes reload.

 

[cybermgk]

I told you that the shred mode is more than a high treble setting , it add gain too ...

First, I want to point out that Cliff's understanding and knowledge of the internals of an amp is at the designer Engineer level. He also, obviously 100% knows how his modelling engine and algorithms work, how parameters in them work etc.

Even from the JP2C manual: https://mesa-boogie.imgix.net/media/User Manuals/070494-JP2C-160317-download.pdf

This new-to-the-II-C+ voicing switch (Mode) adds upper harmonic content and a layer of more extended top end or “z’s”–as we sometimes refer to them–to the two high gain Channels (2 and 3) only. It sounds and feels to the player as if the SHRED Mode has more gain, and in fact it does, but it’s gain in a narrow and specific region aimed at adding more cut and edge for truly aggressive Chording sounds. It can also be applied to single note Lead sounds, but in that application SHRED will likely be coupled with lower PRESENCE and/or TREBLE settings to achieve the best blend of frequencies.

Even the manual states the shred switch just adds more upper, high treble frequencies. These in turn, since boosted in the gain stages WILL mean that they increase the gain IN THOSE frequencies. Exactly, what the manual states. One has to understand what boosting frequencies in an amp's gain structure does, to understand this. An AMP's gain stages just, in basic terms, boost the signal. THat is all a tube does, is it boosts or amplifies what comes in to what goes out. That said, depending on the circuit of the amp, not ALL frequencies are allowed to be amplified. Some of this is controlled by the EQ stack, others by the gain stage circuit as well, shunting certain frequwncies to ground, to not be boosted. That is all we are talking here, adding very high frequencies to be 'boosted'. THis in turn produces more perceived 'gain', as more HAS been boosted (as opposed to switch off)

And, surprise, the Axe Fx description of the High Treble knob reads remarkably similar to above
https://wiki.fractalaudio.com/wiki/index.php?title=Amp_block#HIGH_TREBLE

HIGH TREBLE

This parameter is named HIGH TREBLE in firmware Ares.

Previously called: Bright knob.

(Owners Manual) “Think of this as an extra tone control, useful to add “zing” or tame harsh highs.”

It's a shelving filter between the preamp and power amp and can be used to darken or brighten the output of the preamp. It replicates the “Presence” control in the Mesa Triaxis preamp when set to negative values (the Presence control in the Triaxis is a high frequency cut shelving filter).

Do not confuse this with the Bright switch (see above).

"The Bright Knob is an active fourth tone control at high frequencies. Think of it as "High Treble". You can use it to add a little zing to a preset or remove harsh high frequencies. You can also use it to simulate the behavior of the Presence control on a Triaxis (which is really just a high cut). Turn it down to simulate "Presence" settings less than 10." source

Lastly, given Cliff's expertise, and actual engineering knowledge, if he says that the High Treble accomplishes the same result as the Shred switch (except it is an adjustable range, not just a preset range like the switch), then I don't need the above to convince me.

 

[My name is mud]

Man ... .
In the jp manual you skip this thing “It sounds and feels to the player as if the SHRED Mode has more gain, and in fact it does “ . So I am not dreaming . You know , I have amp near me and pretty good ears , so I don’t need to read something to feel that switching this button on add gain lol .... and that the high treble thing in the axe don’t do the same result . And that the presence shift button don’t add the same treble and punch than pulling the button in the head . You are trying to explain with a magazine a owner of a Ferrari how a Ferrari works . Youhouuu wake up ! I own it , it’s real here , that’s not a book, marketing or internet . Then I am not judging cliff . What do you want , a video showing the sound with and without the shred mode ? I think I am seriously wasting my time . Believe who you want , but the day you try a real JP2c and turn the shred mode on think about me .

 

[hubula]

Since eq controls are before gain stages in Mesa Mark amps, that means that adding bass/mids/treble/presence will also add more gain

 

[Sean Ashe]

Try the input boost. Maybe the grind or shimmer

 

[Syrinx]

Man ... .
In the jp manual you skip this thing “It sounds and feels to the player as if the SHRED Mode has more gain, and in fact it does “ . So I am not dreaming . You know , I have amp near me and pretty good ears , so I don’t need to read something to feel that switching this button on add gain lol .... and that the high treble thing in the axe don’t do the same result . And that the presence shift button don’t add the same treble and punch than pulling the button in the head . You are trying to explain with a magazine a owner of a Ferrari how a Ferrari works . Youhouuu wake up ! I own it , it’s real here , that’s not a book, marketing or internet . Then I am not judging cliff . What do you want , a video showing the sound with and without the shred mode ? I think I am seriously wasting my time . Believe who you want , but the day you try a real JP2c and turn the shred mode on think about me .

So are you saying Petrucci doesn't know what he's talking about?

 

[FractalAudio]

Man ... .
In the jp manual you skip this thing “It sounds and feels to the player as if the SHRED Mode has more gain, and in fact it does “ . So I am not dreaming . You know , I have amp near me and pretty good ears , so I don’t need to read something to feel that switching this button on add gain lol .... and that the high treble thing in the axe don’t do the same result . And that the presence shift button don’t add the same treble and punch than pulling the button in the head . You are trying to explain with a magazine a owner of a Ferrari how a Ferrari works . Youhouuu wake up ! I own it , it’s real here , that’s not a book, marketing or internet . Then I am not judging cliff . What do you want , a video showing the sound with and without the shred mode ? I think I am seriously wasting my time . Believe who you want , but the day you try a real JP2c and turn the shred mode on think about me .

Presence is dependent upon the speaker impedance. Since the Torpedo does not resemble a real speaker load pulling the Presence knob will not behave the same as the model nor the real amp into a real load.

 

[My name is mud]

I use my axe through studio monitor , the difference with the presence knob act not the same too. The torpedo thing was to do the video as a real amp where involved . Here I use the axe in monitors and my head through a cab .

So are you saying Petrucci doesn't know what he's talking about?

Petrucci what ? He use the dist of his head in records and live . The fact he said that he’s impressed it’s just being correct with a musical business compagny. The typical american shaking hands , saying “yes it’s great” and then playing back with his amp after Washing them. Joking. I am a dt fan . I Play quite their Whole disco, see them so many time . But don’t forget the business part of all these famous music actors . He release a signature wha and use the rack . I worked 18 years in the music industry here , so marketing and all that stuff...

 

[cybermgk]

Man ... .
In the jp manual you skip this thing “It sounds and feels to the player as if the SHRED Mode has more gain, and in fact it does “ . So I am not dreaming . You know , I have amp near me and pretty good ears , so I don’t need to read something to feel that switching this button on add gain lol .... and that the high treble thing in the axe don’t do the same result . And that the presence shift button don’t add the same treble and punch than pulling the button in the head . You are trying to explain with a magazine a owner of a Ferrari how a Ferrari works . Youhouuu wake up ! I own it , it’s real here , that’s not a book, marketing or internet . Then I am not judging cliff . What do you want , a video showing the sound with and without the shred mode ? I think I am seriously wasting my time . Believe who you want , but the day you try a real JP2c and turn the shred mode on think about me .

Please read again. I did not skip that part, I also explained it, what they meant by it, having actually studied tube amps, modding them and even wiring my own. I also explained how the High treble does the same thing. Simple point of fact, as explained in the Mesa manual, the shred switch does not add another gain stage, use another half of or both sides of a tube, it just adds frequencies to the signal that is then boosted by the gain stages. .

Oddly, you didn't extend the statement above, for the whole statement " and in fact it does, but it’s gain in a narrow and specific region aimed at adding more cut and edge for truly aggressive Chording sound "

I tried, it is obvious you just want to tear down the Axe, as you refuse to listen (read). Enjoy yourself. I'm done

 

[My name is mud]

ok . I tear down the axe and you , if cliff said jump over the window you will do it because he is a scientist . I only believe what I see or listen to .
The day cliff will do a a/b test with the jp he copies and the result , then we can go further . The rest are just words . If cliff , you and me where at home , in 5 minutes you will notice the difference and the things to improve in the copy . Then ok, believe that the sim is perfect because cliff said it. As everything was already perfect in axe fx2 in discussion .... I just hope to see more amp and pedal comparaison in the future by other people . Me it was the only one . When I see the result . They are maybe 10 people that agree or already feel the same way I do , and the others “use you earsss, cliff is goddd “... my god ... I ve played music my whole life ...

 

[cybermgk]

ok . I tear down the axe and you , if cliff said jump over the window you will do it because he is a scientist . I only believe what I see or listen to .
The day cliff will do a a/b test with the jp he copies and the result , then we can go further . The rest are just words . If cliff , you and me where at home , in 5 minutes you will notice the difference and the things to improve in the copy . Then ok, believe that the sim is perfect because cliff said it. As everything was already perfect in axe fx2 in discussion .... I just hope to see more amp and pedal comparaison in the future by other people . Me it was the only one . When I see the result . They are maybe 10 people that agree or already feel the same way I do , and the others “use you earsss, cliff is goddd “... my god ... I ve played music my whole life ...

And this post says volumes about your attitude and intent imho.

Now please, by all means explain how the shred switch adds an additional gain stage in the amp AND exactly how the High Treble adjustment on the Axe works, and exactly how they differ in each devices circuit or algorithm.

I will be brutally honest here. EVERY post you have made in this thread, from the OP on, has shown that you:
1. Had a set of pre-made assumptions you have made yourself believe are 'fact'
2. Refuse to listen, let alone try to undrstand explainations

Bye, have a nice life.

 

[My name is mud]

And this post says volumes about your attitude and intent imho.

Now please, by all means explain how the shred switch adds an additional gain stage in the amp AND exactly how the High Treble adjustment on the Axe works, and exactly how they differ in each devices circuit or algorithm.

I will be brutally honest here. EVERY post you have made in this thread, from the OP on, has shown that you:
1. Had a set of pre-made assumptions you have made yourself believe are 'fact'
2. Refuse to listen, let alone try to undrstand explainations

By, have a nice life.

Do you have a JP2c? No ? So

 

[My name is mud]

Sure I m convinced by facts . Cause they are real .