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Real JP2C vs Axe-Fx 3 sim comparison

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My name is mud

Experienced
hi ! Cliff asked to post it in the forum , so here we go .
SO :
Owning the real head, everytime I use it in the axe , i feel that the control dont act like the real thing . So I decided to do a video to be sure about this .
In the video I use the real head, torpedo captor and a IR . and then the axe 3 with the same settings and same IR . the difference is huge .
Then ok, I already got some answer like
"the sliders in the 5 band EQ in the axe are more violent acting"

-can we have an update with more realistic course of the mark 5 sliders ?

"you are using a torpedo captor and it not as good as..."

I dont think that the torpedo captor give less gain, add tons of mids , and change the preamp section ...

"2 same amps can have a sound difference"

the difference between A and B is so big , I dont know any amp manufacturers that produce random amps with the same name on it . I agree with a very light difference, but here ....

Well . in my opinion , if you want a more realistic jp2C in the axe 3 :

update it with :

1/ add gain in the gain button, the real jp got more gain
2/ the real JP is globally more scooped
3/ add a shred button that act like a tubescreamer boost, the +3 db high treble dont work and dont simulated it as mention . the shred mode add gain too .

(sorry for my english , I am not . )

I am already thinking, doing another test with the axe 3 in the return of the head to compare only the preamp section , and using the torpedo captor for both so . and maybe dont use the graphic eq on both .

( axe 3 JP2C without cab- return of the JP2C - torpedo captor - IR
JP2C - torpedo captor - same IR )

VIDEO :

 
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Harm

Inspired
Well, have to admit that " the real thing" to my ears sounds a lot better.
Thank you for the comparison.

Harm
 
Hi here. I already answered on the Facebook page, but just that it's here as well. Someone said that the Captor is not the best load here. I must say, the captor does not influence the tone that much. I've tried with an amp that I have at home now (the fireball) and with the Shure RL and Captor 8 ohm. The difference is very minor in regards of tone when not running into heavy power amp distortion (which you are obviously not)

If you could provide the IR that you've used I could try to match the amp model to the real one and send you the preset. I think that the AXE is a superb tool, but one needs to change the way of thinking. Some controls (like the 5 band EQ) are a lot smoother and give you much more precise control over the EQ in the axe model). Some controls -> like the master volume are slightly different. One always needs to listen by ears to achieve the same tone.

BUT! One thing that I noticed when comparing the axe III / FM3 modelling compared to the AXE II (that I've sold some time ago) is, that the new ones lack the clarity that the AXE II has. It had a sort of clarity in the 2k range where more string and pick noise is coming through and this is certainly something that the real amp does as well. I had to do this with every amp model in the FM3 if I want to match it to a real amp (5150 II, Savage 120, Savage 60, Mesa, ...). Every amp model benefits from the bright switch with the bright cap value slightly higher and a boost in the 2k range in the input EQ. I can't tell about lower gain amp models, but the high gain ones definitely don't sound exactly like a real amp does. It always needs this simple tweak.
 

My name is mud

Experienced
you will do a tone match so ? I was thinking of it .
It dont change the main "problem"
If you are obliged to look for guitar sample of each amps to tone match them ....
I dont have bought "the best simulator" to tone match everything better than using the controls
 

My name is mud

Experienced
I dont have spent a lot of time tweaking because the main message of this video wasn’t “can we reproduce the JP2c?” but “are the controls realistic?”
 

My name is mud

Experienced
So the list of differences between the real and sim are even bigger if we add your notes to mine

Yours :
Master volume
Presence depth

mine :
Presence pulled
Shred mode
Gain button
5 eq sliders
Global mid feel
 

DLC86

Fractal Fanatic
I dont think that the torpedo captor ... add tons of mids
It definitely can compared to the impedance curve of a real cab, or the one selected in the axe fx.

-can we have an update with more realistic course of the mark 5 sliders
The taper of those have been changed to allow a finer control than the original (just like master, depth and presence) so I don't see that happening, no reason to simulate "defects" that add nothing to the sound
 

My name is mud

Experienced
I will do the test with the basic controls (bass mid high and gain ) only , running the head with the axe and the captor for both . So no load box / 5 band eq excuses
even that it’s pretty stupid to remove half the fonction (shred mode, 5 band eq...) to do a test ...
 

yek

Moderator
Moderator
So the list of differences between the real and sim are even bigger if we add your notes to mine

Yours :
Master volume
Presence depth

mine :
Presence pulled
Shred mode
Gain button
5 eq sliders
Global mid feel

No, the start and endpoints of the Master and Presence controls are the same. It's just the taper (in all amp models) that's different and that's by design and documented.

Also, FAS chooses which features of the original amp it models and which not. Sometimes a feature on the original amp is already available through another parameter in the model. And sometimes the model goes further than the original amp, going beyond the limitations of the original amp and improving on it.

As documented in the wiki:
  • to emulate the “Shred” mode, turn the High Treble control to approximately 3-4 dB.
  • pull Presence = Presence Shift switch in the model.
 
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DLC86

Fractal Fanatic
I am already thinking, doing another test with the axe 3 in the return of the head to compare only the preamp section , and using the torpedo captor for both so . and maybe dont use the graphic eq on both .
This could be a good test, at least you remove some variables this way. Just be sure to match the volume between the two
 

My name is mud

Experienced
for now I'm sure that :

the sim dont have enough gain compared to the original
the presence shift dont act like the original (very more violent in the original)
the shred mode is not simulated while tuning up the high treble control , cause the shred mode add gain like a tubescreamer .
the 5 band mark EQ dont act like the original

I say this because I own both in the same place hm, not to "shit-talk" about the axe or whatever, I think it's important for "non jp2c users" or people who never tried the original, to know that what they hear without advanced tweaks is not the same as the amp .

I hope to have a more realistic sim of my favorite amp that's all . then If i dont have it..... but I wont sold the original for sure then .
I think the improvments are really possible , nothing crazy .
 
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My name is mud

Experienced
i really need to do a stupid simple test with bass 4 mid 5 and treble 6 and gain 6 for ex ,with the sliders eq off , without shred mode . running the head and the torpedo captor for both . then I will have a comparaison with the minimum of settings of the amp , the source. same ir, same poweramp, same loadbox .
 
I generally agree, that it's sort of frustrating sometimes to read all the pages on wiki and forum just to find why the fractal model sounds different. But hey, it's a computer and once you gain knowledge about it, you can shape your sound waaay better than the real amp can do. And just use the amps as a refference to start somewhere (just like I do). At the beginning I was kinda thinking about selling fm3. But now I'm happy I didn't.
 

My name is mud

Experienced
it wont be a "metal" test so , because if i remove the eq, the shred, the presence not pulled and turn down the gain , it will sound very "hard rock" . you dont buy a jp2C to do this but ... it can be interesting .
 

My name is mud

Experienced
the frustating thing for me , is using a sim of an amp I never had , without knowing if it really act like the real deal, this is what I dislike after doing this test . It destroys the dream to have a high fidelity amp sim collection away .
 

My name is mud

Experienced
I generally agree, that it's sort of frustrating sometimes to read all the pages on wiki and forum just to find why the fractal model sounds different. But hey, it's a computer and once you gain knowledge about it, you can shape your sound waaay better than the real amp can do. And just use the amps as a refference to start somewhere (just like I do). At the beginning I was kinda thinking about selling fm3. But now I'm happy I didn't.
and this is what I do to in the end, I have 150 made presets with big tweaks on it . but I am pointing the fidelity of the basic settings . When I open a vh4 , I want it to react like the head if I turn the button like this or like this . This is what I expect with a simulator .
 
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