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Bug? Random audio drops after using scene controllers

Fat Biscuit

New Member
I recently started using scene controllers to change settings on channel A of the amp block to enable seamless switching between various gain levels. The scene controllers work great for this purpose, BUT now I get occasional drops in sound while using that amp model. By drops in sound I mean all audio stops for up to 3 seconds or so. The audio drop doesn't always last the same amount of time. I have not noticed the issue happen to any other channels on the amp block, only the channel which is using scene controllers. In the modifier settings on each channel, I have it set to only modify Channel A. The model being used is the 1959SLP Treble, in case that matters. I'm using FW1.06 and have not had this issue ever until I implemented scene controllers. I've noticed the issue both with FM3Edit running and with USB unplugged completely.
I noticed other threads mention a similar issue stemming from using two delay blocks in one preset, but I'm only using one delay block.
Any suggestions? Any help would be greatly appreciated!
 

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BryantP

Administrator
Moderator
Thank you for the detailed report and providing the preset. We'll take a look as soon as we can. Unfortunately, I don't have any suggestions off the top of my head.
 

chris

Legend!
I recently started using scene controllers to change settings on channel A of the amp block to enable seamless switching between various gain levels. The scene controllers work great for this purpose, BUT now I get occasional drops in sound while using that amp model. By drops in sound I mean all audio stops for up to 3 seconds or so. The audio drop doesn't always last the same amount of time. I have not noticed the issue happen to any other channels on the amp block, only the channel which is using scene controllers. In the modifier settings on each channel, I have it set to only modify Channel A. The model being used is the 1959SLP Treble, in case that matters. I'm using FW1.06 and have not had this issue ever until I implemented scene controllers. I've noticed the issue both with FM3Edit running and with USB unplugged completely.
I noticed other threads mention a similar issue stemming from using two delay blocks in one preset, but I'm only using one delay block.
Any suggestions? Any help would be greatly appreciated!
i've played your preset for about 20 minutes now. i haven't experienced any "drops in sound" or anything unexpected.

i notice that Scene 2 clean is quiet compared to the other higher gain sounds. the compressor seems to be pretty aggressive there. Scene 3, 4 and 5 are pretty loud on the VU meter, so if you set the volume for your room where those aren't too loud, going to Scene 2 could be perceived as a big drop in audio. just a thought, not saying that's exactly it.

another thought i had was if you remove the volume block (don't save, just replace it with a shunt) does the problem go away? just go to another preset and back without saving to get the volume block back.

i don't have anything connected to Pedal 2 which is assigned to the Volume parameter in the Volume block. when i load the preset, i get a weird value of 4.xx for some reason. i also notice it's set to only work on Channel B, and all Scenes have Channel B of the Volume block selected.

do you have a pedal in pedal jack 2 of your FM3? Volume blocks in a preset where there are Volume issues are a red flag to check.
 

chris

Legend!
can you describe a bit more about when the dropout occurs? randomly? immediately after changing Scenes? etc. thanks.

also in the Reverb block, you have a controller on the Mix for Channel C only, which appears in Scene 7 only. it seems you wanted to limit the maximum to about 30% or so.

instead of adjusting the slope etc of the graph, if that's the only thing you wanted to affect, just change the Max control. the Min Max knobs adjust the limits of the range for the parameter, so just change Max to 30% and leave the graph stuff alone. just a suggestion, not sure what you wanted to accomplish specifically.

40 minutes into playing the preset and i haven't experienced anything unexpected.
 
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Rublalup

Inspired
I’ve had this problem with a preset before. Was using the jtm45 model. It was cpu heavy and used a couple cs. I remember austinbuddy acknowledged something similar also.

I don’t use that preset anymore but after 1.06 I’ve had no audio drops
 

Fat Biscuit

New Member
Thanks for all the timely responses!

I am very new to the FM3 and Fractal products in general, so thanks for the advice on the levels. I haven't taken this anywhere to really crank anything at gig volume yet.
I have both pedal jacks on the FM3 connected to expression pedals: pedal 1 is for wah/whammy/whatever depending on preset and pedal 2 is always a volume pedal.
I will try removing the volume block and see if that helps. The volume ended up on channel B from when I was only using one expression pedal, then it just stayed that way. I'll switch it back to channel A in case that matters?

I have not noticed any pattern with the dropouts, so it seems random to me at the moment. I think it might tend to happen more often immediately after a scene change from the FC6, but it has also happened after playing on one scene for several minutes. Speaking of the FC6, I'm using the OMG9 layout in case that matters.

As far as the reverb control goes, your suggestion would accomplish the same thing I'm going for - controlling the reverb mix. When I first attempted this, the expression pedal toe down ended up with 100% mix, but I wanted the max around 30%. Is there an advantage to doing this without touching the slope?

Thanks again for the help everybody!
 

chris

Legend!
I'll switch it back to channel A in case that matters?
that shouldn't matter, because it's consistent. generally though for an "always on volume pedal" you don't need to choose the specific Channel in the Modifier window. unless in the future you see not wanting to control volume for some reason. you can probably leave it set to All. but again in this specific preset, you happen to have them all on Channel B, so choosing "only channel B" in the modifier window doesn't really do anything.

As far as the reverb control goes, your suggestion would accomplish the same thing I'm going for - controlling the reverb mix. When I first attempted this, the expression pedal toe down ended up with 100% mix, but I wanted the max around 30%. Is there an advantage to doing this without touching the slope?
it's much easier to just change the Max to the maximum you want, rather than trying to get the right angle on the slope/graph. if that's the only thing you want to accomplish, you just change Max to 30 and you're done.

if you can find any pattern to when it's cutting out, that would help. or how often it happens, etc. anything really. after 40 minutes playing, i had no unexpected behavior.

i only suggest removing the volume block as i didn't know your setup, and that generally is a source of volume issues.
 

Fat Biscuit

New Member
I made level changes so scenes are much more even, which sounds nice. I relaxed the compressor a bit and changed the amp model volume to compensate. I changed the volume block expression pedal so that all channels were affected, not just channel B. The audio drop problem persisted.

I did notice while the problem was happening, it was always on scene 3. I did not observe the problem on scene 4, and the only difference between those scenes is the bypass state of the delay block. I never once noticed the audio drop on any clean scenes that also use that delay block.

I got rid of the reverb block expression stuff because I wasn't using it anymore anyways. The problem persisted.

I removed the volume block completely. The problem persisted... once... then I never noticed the audio drop again after 20 minutes of playing. I will play more tomorrow to see if the problem is staying solved.
 

chris

Legend!
I made level changes so scenes are much more even, which sounds nice. I relaxed the compressor a bit and changed the amp model volume to compensate. I changed the volume block expression pedal so that all channels were affected, not just channel B. The audio drop problem persisted.

I did notice while the problem was happening, it was always on scene 3. I did not observe the problem on scene 4, and the only difference between those scenes is the bypass state of the delay block. I never once noticed the audio drop on any clean scenes that also use that delay block.

I got rid of the reverb block expression stuff because I wasn't using it anymore anyways. The problem persisted.

I removed the volume block completely. The problem persisted... once... then I never noticed the audio drop again after 20 minutes of playing. I will play more tomorrow to see if the problem is staying solved.
thanks for trying all that!

make sure it isn't a faulty guitar cable or the jack on your guitar or something. i've had that happen, where i'm playing, shuffling around in my chair a bit, and the audio cuts out and don't realize my cable is bent weird.

let us know how it goes with the volume block removed.
 

Fat Biscuit

New Member
Update #2.
I played more this morning. The audio drop problem happens with and without the volume block, so I don't think that is the problem. I've noticed the drop only happens on scenes 3 and 4, which use identical scene controller levels.

If I remove the delay block, the problem seems to go away. From what I've read (and I may be wrong), the delay, amp, and cab blocks utilize one cpu (I'll call this cpu1) while all other blocks use another (I'll call this cpu2). I now wonder if adding the scene controllers and having one delay block is somehow overloading cpu1 and causing the audio drops. My cpu usage hovers around 69%-74%, but does that only represent the usage for cpu2?
I tried muting unused cabs in the cab block channels to lessen the load on cpu1, but the problem persists as long as the delay block is present.

I need a delay block since that is one of my most commonly used effects. The three scene controllers are controlling the gain, bass, and presence of the 1959slp treble model. I am thinking of getting rid of the bass and presence scene controllers and adding an EQ block to change the tone from scene to scene. Maybe that will take some processing burden off of cpu1 and have the same effect tone-wise.

I've attached the updated preset. To anyone who plays it: do the levels sound even across scenes? Please note this preset was made with my Firebird with mini humbucker pickups that are relatively low output. Given my Firebird is a very bright-sounding guitar with low-output mini humbuckers, the tones may sound very dark and extra gainy (not a word but should be?) to those using higher output pickups.
 

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chris

Legend!
Update #2.
I played more this morning. The audio drop problem happens with and without the volume block, so I don't think that is the problem. I've noticed the drop only happens on scenes 3 and 4, which use identical scene controller levels.

If I remove the delay block, the problem seems to go away. From what I've read (and I may be wrong), the delay, amp, and cab blocks utilize one cpu (I'll call this cpu1) while all other blocks use another (I'll call this cpu2). I now wonder if adding the scene controllers and having one delay block is somehow overloading cpu1 and causing the audio drops. My cpu usage hovers around 69%-74%, but does that only represent the usage for cpu2?
I tried muting unused cabs in the cab block channels to lessen the load on cpu1, but the problem persists as long as the delay block is present.

I need a delay block since that is one of my most commonly used effects. The three scene controllers are controlling the gain, bass, and presence of the 1959slp treble model. I am thinking of getting rid of the bass and presence scene controllers and adding an EQ block to change the tone from scene to scene. Maybe that will take some processing burden off of cpu1 and have the same effect tone-wise.

I've attached the updated preset. To anyone who plays it: do the levels sound even across scenes? Please note this preset was made with my Firebird with mini humbucker pickups that are relatively low output. Given my Firebird is a very bright-sounding guitar with low-output mini humbuckers, the tones may sound very dark and extra gainy (not a word but should be?) to those using higher output pickups.
I’ll check this out later today.
 

Rublalup

Inspired
Update #2.
I played more this morning. The audio drop problem happens with and without the volume block, so I don't think that is the problem. I've noticed the drop only happens on scenes 3 and 4, which use identical scene controller levels.

If I remove the delay block, the problem seems to go away. From what I've read (and I may be wrong), the delay, amp, and cab blocks utilize one cpu (I'll call this cpu1) while all other blocks use another (I'll call this cpu2). I now wonder if adding the scene controllers and having one delay block is somehow overloading cpu1 and causing the audio drops. My cpu usage hovers around 69%-74%, but does that only represent the usage for cpu2?
I tried muting unused cabs in the cab block channels to lessen the load on cpu1, but the problem persists as long as the delay block is present.

I need a delay block since that is one of my most commonly used effects. The three scene controllers are controlling the gain, bass, and presence of the 1959slp treble model. I am thinking of getting rid of the bass and presence scene controllers and adding an EQ block to change the tone from scene to scene. Maybe that will take some processing burden off of cpu1 and have the same effect tone-wise.

I've attached the updated preset. To anyone who plays it: do the levels sound even across scenes? Please note this preset was made with my Firebird with mini humbucker pickups that are relatively low output. Given my Firebird is a very bright-sounding guitar with low-output mini humbuckers, the tones may sound very dark and extra gainy (not a word but should be?) to those using higher output pickups.
Try building the preset again. I had the issue with one preset that was someway corrupted. I redid it and never experienced drops again
 

chris

Legend!
Update #2.
I played more this morning. The audio drop problem happens with and without the volume block, so I don't think that is the problem. I've noticed the drop only happens on scenes 3 and 4, which use identical scene controller levels.

If I remove the delay block, the problem seems to go away. From what I've read (and I may be wrong), the delay, amp, and cab blocks utilize one cpu (I'll call this cpu1) while all other blocks use another (I'll call this cpu2). I now wonder if adding the scene controllers and having one delay block is somehow overloading cpu1 and causing the audio drops. My cpu usage hovers around 69%-74%, but does that only represent the usage for cpu2?
I tried muting unused cabs in the cab block channels to lessen the load on cpu1, but the problem persists as long as the delay block is present.

I need a delay block since that is one of my most commonly used effects. The three scene controllers are controlling the gain, bass, and presence of the 1959slp treble model. I am thinking of getting rid of the bass and presence scene controllers and adding an EQ block to change the tone from scene to scene. Maybe that will take some processing burden off of cpu1 and have the same effect tone-wise.

I've attached the updated preset. To anyone who plays it: do the levels sound even across scenes? Please note this preset was made with my Firebird with mini humbucker pickups that are relatively low output. Given my Firebird is a very bright-sounding guitar with low-output mini humbuckers, the tones may sound very dark and extra gainy (not a word but should be?) to those using higher output pickups.
i had audio stop working almost immediately upon loading Scene 3 of the new preset. all audio is gone on every preset when this occurs. looking at the hardware meters on Layout, the sound stops at the Amp block, no output there.

so it seems to be specific to the Amp block.

i'll investigate and report my findings for a fix. thanks for the concrete examples!

i deleted all blocks but in, amp, ca, delay, out, and now i'm getting random drop outs on Scene 3, but not the complete killing of all audio through the amp block. this is interesting. CPU is at 27% and Scene Controllers aren't doing anything while i'm in Scene 3... will keep at it.

and now the sound has eventually fully dropped out. it comes back after reboot.

the levels of this preset are way too high for Amp B. it's clipping when i use it. i know you said your guitar has low output pickups, but this is still a very loud preset.

are you using the VU meters on hardware? go to the Layout, then press Knob A to Zoom out. even playing quietly, the meter is clipping the far right edge. you have the Amp block Level at -3.3. i need to set it to about -10dB to be near the Level Set Line and not clip.
 
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Fat Biscuit

New Member
I just rebuilt the entire preset from scratch as Rublalup suggested, and so far so good!
I don't know what is wrong with the original preset, but it must be something I did unintentionally.
 

chris

Legend!
I just rebuilt the entire preset from scratch as Rublalup suggested, and so far so good!
I don't know what is wrong with the original preset, but it must be something I did unintentionally.
cool. let us know if it returns.

i'm still investigating the 2nd preset, as i get the drop out every time on Scene 3.
 

Fat Biscuit

New Member
are you using the VU meters on hardware? go to the Layout, then press Knob A to Zoom out. even playing quietly, the meter is clipping the far right edge. you have the Amp block Level at -3.3. i need to set it to about -10dB to be near the Level Set Line and not clip
I'll check this out, thanks for the suggestion.
 

Fat Biscuit

New Member
The saga continues!
The preset was working fine with 3 out of 8 scenes using scene controllers. Then I added scene controllers to a 4th scene and the audio drop problem returned.
I tried two other guitars and two other cables just to rule out bad cables and jacks; no problems there.

I've attached the (yet again) updated version of the preset.

are you using the VU meters on hardware? go to the Layout, then press Knob A to Zoom out. even playing quietly, the meter is clipping the far right edge. you have the Amp block Level at -3.3. i need to set it to about -10dB to be near the Level Set Line and not clip.
I have also now been using the VU meters on the FM3 itself, which has helped me level out presets and scenes a bit better. If nothing else, this process has helped me learn more about the features of the FM3. Amp Channel B is well under clipping now from what I can see (assuming I'm doing this correctly that is).
 

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