Questions about power conditioning, rack tuner and rack spaces.

moffar

Member
Well guys, I just went ahead and did it. I ordered the Axe-Fx II XL+ and the GT1000FX 2U, as well as the MFC-101 and a couple of EV-1's. Can't wait now.

Anyway. As I've been reading, a lot of you choose to use a power conditioner. I reckon I'll do as well. And as of that, I've been looking in on the Furman ones. As I live in Norway, I'll have to go with the 220-240 voltage. So, do any of you have experience with the difference between the "PL-8", the "PL-PLUS" and the "PL-PRO"? Can I do without the voltmeter, or will I have use of it, or will I even need the voltmeter/ammeter?

Considering this setup and the built-in tuner of the Axe, how is this tuner compared to a stand-alone rack tuner? Any recommendations there?

I will also need a rack for all of this. And as we all mostly think ahead, I'd believe that an extra rack space or two would be preferable. So, to sum it up: Fractal=2u + Matrix=2u + Furman=1u + eventual rack tuner=1u. This ends up at 5 or 6 spaces. Is going for 8 spaces overkill or is that 1 extra enough? Could you also recommend either a rack bag, plastic or heavy duty rack, pros and cons and so forth? A brand maybe?

Thank you in advance for taking your time to answer me.
 
Congrats on your purchase!

As for power conditioning, I personally ended up using this thing - FurmanSound.com - 220-240V International Home Theater Product - AC-210 A E -, velcroed to the top of Axe FX with a couple of other things. A full rack unit just took too much space. On the front side of my rack bag I just have 8 power outlets to connect various devices.

Generally, apart from the number of three-letter abbreviations, they are all the same in terms of protection, so just look for convenience.

No, you dont NEED a voltmeter, it's there to look more like a power regulator, there's no use to you in knowing the voltage.

The tuner in Axe FX is great but I don't use it - it's just not big enough and the contrast on the Axe display isn't too high. Basically, if you don't mind using it while sitting close, its more than enough. If you want to use it from a distance, you'll probably need something else.

1 extra rack space is good, but who's going to carry all this for you? If you're going to do it by yourself, I'd suggest splitting it into a couple of smaller bags. Carrying an 8u case isn't fun at all.

I personally use Gator rack bags, they're okay. But I don't fly, so if you do, you might need something sturdier.

Looking for bags/cases, pay attention to depth - Axe FX is big and won't fit into some of them.
 
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Just thought I should clarify my point about power conditioners. There are two things that are important to understand and are rarely understood and thus exploited by various manufacturers:

1. Power conditioner is a marketing term, it doesn't mean anything standard.
2. Axe FX is digital equipment. It needs the same type of protection as your computer, not as your high end stereo.

"Power conditioning" usually includes three components - noise filter, surge suppressor and high voltage shutoff.

The first you don't need - AFAIK, Axe FX has a switching power supply, it CREATES noise, switching power supplies are one of the major reasons why filters exist, so you should protect OTHER EQUIPMENT from your Axe, not vice versa. And it generally doesn't matter for guitar stuff. So just ignore what specs say about this part.

Surge suppressor is good when it, well, suppresses surges such as lightning strikes or when heavy machinery switches on and off; apart from suppression, it shouldn't sacrifice itself while protecting but rather shut off and on again. All mentioned Furmans do that no better than decent surge protectors for PCs at 5-10% of the price. But they do it, so that's good.

What makes Furmans more useful is high voltage protection - pure surge protectors will keep supplying power when voltage rises to, say, 280 volts. There's no surge but your unit will be toasted. As far as I remember, Furmans shut off when voltage rises to 260 volts or something like that. Will it save Axe FX? I have no idea. Maybe not. But maybe yes - Axe has a switching power supply, these guys should tolerate high voltages better than your tube amp. But the good news here is that such things are rare. If you live in Europe and have 220-230V grid, there is a chance, through some stupidity and mishaps, to get 380V, in this case Furman's EVP circuit should trigger a shutoff. But 260-270V should be something as probable as being struck by a lightning while walking in the streets of Oslo.

So basically you should be Okay. If you want more serious protection still, consider a voltage regulator instead of a power conditioner. But that might be an overkill - good voltage regulators are expensive, and your Axe FX, as precious as it is, probably isn't worth it by itself.
 
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Congrats on your purchase!

As for power conditioning, I personally ended up using this thing - FurmanSound.com - 220-240V International Home Theater Product - AC-210 A E -, velcroed to the top of Axe FX with a couple of other things. A full rack unit just took too much space. On the front side of my rack bag I just have 8 power outlets to connect various devices.

Generally, apart from the number of three-letter abbreviations, they are all the same in terms of protection, so just look for convenience.

No, you dont NEED a voltmeter, it's there to look more like a power regulator, there's no use to you in knowing the voltage.

The tuner in Axe FX is great but I don't use it - it's just not big enough and the contrast on the Axe display isn't too high. Basically, if you don't mind using it while sitting close, its more than enough. If you want to use it from a distance, you'll probably need something else.

1 extra rack space is good, but who's going to carry all this for you? If you're going to do it by yourself, I'd suggest splitting it into a couple of smaller bags. Carrying an 8u case isn't fun at all.

I personally use Gator rack bags, they're okay. But I don't fly, so if you do, you might need something sturdier.

Looking for bags/cases, pay attention to depth - Axe FX is big and won't fit into some of them.

I would like to thank you vangrieg for both this post and your insightful second post. You learn something new every day.

My equipment arrived today and I'm already head over heels. Just WOW! And, well, now I'm curious about some other things as well, if I dare to ask then. Here goes:

To start with, I'm settling in with the FURMAN conditioner. I believe I'll go with the PL-8 C E, this one seems OK to my level of purpose.

The next thing is the rack mount tuner. I've become aware of the KORG Pitchblack Tuner. It seems reliable despite its plastic housing. Any experience, anyone?

The arrangement of units in a rack has also come to my attention, with consideration to heat in the back of my mind. I've read about the low heat they generate but still, I have to ask. Also, in my case, I'm considering this arrangement, from top to bottom: FURMAN (due to electromagnetic interference?), KORG, MATRIX, and FRACTAL (heaviest on the bottom?). Any reason in this setup?

And then you have the rack itself. I've been looking into transportable rolling racks since I plan to store all units in one rack. Since we're already at 6U at this point, I'm thinking of an 8U due to eventual future expanding (SHURE wireless?). You never know, better safe than sorry. The ones I'm looking into are either GATOR or SKB. Any specific recommendations? Material? Intended for traveling (sturdy for flying)?

And then there's the question of a patch panel. VAFAM?
Will I need a rack drawer?

And one last thing, those Neutrik Speakon cables (nl2fc), these are recommended over a 1/4" cable when going from MATRIX' output to amplifier or PA?


That's a lot of questions... I hope you'll get them all. Anyones answer is highly appreciated. Thanks in advance.
 
With regard to heat, I've used a 2x100 watt TUBE power amp (mentioned in my signature) with other equipment in a tightly stuffed rack with no problems whatsoever. Well-designed equipment should handle that, and you don't have anything that should produce nearly as much heat as my ENGL. If you want to be extra careful, consider two things - units that produce most heat should be placed on top, since hot air goes up, and potentially sensitive equipment should be put beneath heat-generating units. With that in mind, I'd assemble your rack this way (top to bottom): Furman, Korg, empty space (probably with a patch panel in front of it), Matrix, Axe.

I wouldn't worry about interference in your case. What you probably should pay attention to is insulating the metal chassis of your units from each other and the rack rails. If you don't, you might get ground loop noise. There are special plastic thingies for this purpose - I can't point you to them as I don't remember what they are called, but there was a discussion about them recently on this forum.

With regard to the rack drawer - whether you need it or not only you can answer. I never needed one.

As for your other questions I can't comment as I don't really know.
 
Congratulations on the gear purchase, and welcome to the club!

I use two four space Gator racks. Here's how they are loaded and configured.

Rack 1 (four spaces)
* Furman AR1215 power conditioner
* Line6 G90 wireless receiver
* Carvin EM900 in-ear transmitter
* Blank rack space (yes, I know... it's terribly sad to leave a rack space empty... I'll see if I can find a rack-mounted singing fish or something)


Rack 2 (four spaces)
* AxeFX II XL
* Carvin DCM2000LX

I use the Furman power regulator for all gigs. Most of the venues we play (even the big ones) have unpredictable power. I always start every setup by putting a $3 outlet tester in the stage power box. If it blows up, I'm only out a few bucks. It gives me some assurance that at least the outlets are wired correctly, and grounded. THEN I plug in the Furman and watch it as it stabilizes. If all is good, I power up everything else. I strongly recommend getting a power regulator rather than just a rack-mounted power conditioner / surge protector. But definitely get something designed to protect your rig from catastrophe.

Both of my racks have Vafam panels installed on the back. The rack with the Furman power regulator has a POWERCON "IN" connector, plus an POWERCON "OUT" connector that connects to the other rack. The other jacks on the panels are for audio interconnects, and for the MFC-101. I can set up my rig in less than 10 minutes - including opening the flight cases and unloading my speakers, and removing my pedalboard from its flight case.
 
Thank you Stratman and Sleestak, most kind.

OK then, I'll put the heat concern aside, I've notice that there's zero to none heat produced by my Axe and Matrix. And your arranging makes sense, vangrieg, heat rises = power conditioner/voltage regulator at the top. But that's the thing. You see, I can only spend a certain amount of money due to, well, income, savings etc, and there's a steep difference between a power conditioner and voltage regulator. The Furman conditioner PL-8 is €289/$329 and the Furman regulator P-1400 is €1545/$1755. I know by now that the voltage regulator is the ultimate thing but I simply cannot afford it at the moment. Should I go with the power conditioner to start with or just toss that idea away and save up for the voltage regulator? Well, since I'm based in Norway and Europe is said to have reliable and stable power? I'll get a couple of those outlet testers though, seems like a cheap insurance.

I've also narrowed my search for racks down to two pieces, one by SKB and one by Gator (see links below). Both are 8u rolling racks. Convenient, or should I split into two 4U's? Does anyone have experience with these or any similar models? Material, traveling, protection, depth?
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B002WJHFXC/ref=s9_dcbhz_bw_d0_g267_i1_sh
http://www.amazon.com/Gator-Audio-R...e_p_img_2?ie=UTF8&refRID=0C4Q9CG2YWW6W1HT3T0H


Thanks again for all your answers. You're all really helpful.
 
Yeah, you'll want this thing on wheels.

When I played live, my Axe was in a 6U case (see sig pics). Axe, GT800FX, Furman, patch panel and one blank panel. I never had any problem with heat at all from the Axe-FX or Matrix, really just that a 6U was a straight off the shelf buy whereas a 5U would have been a custom job. Plus then it'd give me an extra space in case I wanted to add anything. The power conditioner was there basically because I already owned it, and it was an easy and neat way to send power to the whole rack with one plug.

That said, the rack itself has a bit of weight in it (compared to a lightweight moulded plastic one). Then things like the Matrix, Axe, a tuner etc., are all individually lightweight, but all still add up. And then add a patch panel with everything wired up in the back... all that cable and all those plugs and panel mount sockets can add up to a decent bit of weight. But I suppose it also depends how much you have connected. I had two inputs for my guitar, MIDI in, FXL in L/R (and I think R out, the left went straight to the other side of my poweramp that I didn't normally use), XLR outs, and two Speakon outs. I remember when I finished wiring the thing up, I picked it up to go put it in the rack and thought, "Crap... this thing weighs a tonne." :lol The side benefit though of course is that I could set up and tear down my rig in a flash. No hunting around in the back on a dark stage trying to plug things in.

I dunno about SKB, but I have a couple of Gator cases and I probably wouldn't buy them anymore, unless it was for some really cheap gear I didn't really care much about. The 4U one I have used to have a 3U tube poweramp and the Furman in it, and over time the weight of the poweramp twisted the rack case out of shape. Wasn't exactly confidence-inspiring for me. Obviously plenty of people use 'em, but that's my experience.
 
Check out Samson powerbrite, same thing costs 80e. It does at least something: I have frequent random dropout in computer audio when bathroom lights are turned on/off. When using Samson, none.
 
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Thank you Stratman and Sleestak, most kind.
You see, I can only spend a certain amount of money due to, well, income, savings etc, and there's a steep difference between a power conditioner and voltage regulator. The Furman conditioner PL-8 is €289/$329 and the Furman regulator P-1400 is €1545/$1755. I know by now that the voltage regulator is the ultimate thing but I simply cannot afford it at the moment. Should I go with the power conditioner to start with or just toss that idea away and save up for the voltage regulator? Well, since I'm based in Norway and Europe is said to have reliable and stable power? I'll get a couple of those outlet testers though, seems like a cheap insurance.

You should be fine with a power conditioner. Like I said, it doesn't make sense to purchase protection which is about the same price as the equipment you're protecting. That Furman will protect you from the most likely harmful events, a regulator is more needed for tube equipment and some very weird power scenarios which I personally never encountered in real life. I don't provide any guarantees though, obviously. :)

I've also narrowed my search for racks down to two pieces, one by SKB and one by Gator (see links below). Both are 8u rolling racks. Convenient, or should I split into two 4U's?

I would suggest splitting into two 4U cases if you are carrying all that yourself. That comes with a price though - it'll be heavier overall as two cases will weigh more than one, so it'll probably cost some more as overweight luggage, and it'll take a bit more time setting up on stage. But that'll be much more manageable in terms of carrying. Why? Because there's a guitar players mortal enemy called stairs. I ended up splitting my equipment into smaller cases after playing at a club where the main stage was on fourth floor with no elevator. I nearly broke my neck climbing the damned thing with my equipment.
 
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