Question on tube preamp amp model and levels

barhrecords

barhrecords

Axe-Master
I created a very simple patch: Filter -> Amp (Tube Preamp) -> Reverb all default values.

I'm using an acoustic 12-string model in a Vairax 700 guitar into the front input of the Ultra.

The Variax output for the acoustic models is the same as the electric guitar models so its like a passive electric guitar output, i.e. lower level than say an UST + preamp in an acoustic guitar.

I noticed to match levels with other traditional electric guitar patches, I had to set the tube preamp master over 10, the amp block mixer level over 10 and the output mixer over 10 too.

I didn't get any distortion or clipping, but I'm wondering if my gain staging is whack? Is there a better way to get the volume from a patch like this so that I can switch between acoustic and electric patches and keep a relatively same volume level?

Thanks,
Richard
 
Did you check that your input is at a level just before you start seeing the red light on the front panel? You can always add a EQ block or PEQ and bump up the signal.

I used to have a Variax 700. Nice modeling guitar.
 
Yeah I've got the input level set to just tickle the red.

What I was doing was switching between factory patch 000, Studio Lead, and my new patch and trying to match the levels.

I was keeping the input and output level knobs on the Ultra the same.

For the Studio Lead patch I used the Variax Les Paul bridge pickup model and for my new patch the Variax acoustic 12 string model.

Richard
 
There are many threads about having the output level match between patches. This is still a manual process per patch.
 
I guess a better way of asking would be

"should the tube preamp amp model produce similar gain to other amp models?".

Richard
 
In my experience, the Tube Preamp has less "stock" level but can be tweaked to match the others (volume-wise)
 
The Tube Pre sim also has a Drive parameter. You might be able to make up the difference using that.

Remember that the "real" Tube Pre is intended as a clean preamp, and has nowhere near the gain of the cranked Mesa in the Studio Lead patch.
 
I'm trying to be able to switch back and forth from a clean acoustic 12 string patch to an electric lead. So all I was doing was getting levels in the ballpark.

I don't have a problem leveling other patches with different amps but this acoustic patch is my only patch with just the tube pre and I was having to max it out to get it to sit well with my other patches.

Just thought maybe I was missing something obvious (other than lowering everything else to match the tube pre patch).

Thanks,
Richard
 
What level differences do you get when you run your Variax 12-string model through the Tube Pre vs. the Studio Lead patch? That would take any Variax differences out of the equation, and let you compare strictly Axe patch to Axe patch.
 
barhrecords said:
I don't have a problem leveling other patches with different amps but this acoustic patch is my only patch with just the tube pre and I was having to max it out to get it to sit well with my other patches.

Just thought maybe I was missing something obvious (other than lowering everything else to match the tube pre patch).

Thanks,
Richard
Click to expand...

If I'm understanding the problem correctly (tube preamp patch volume level too low relative to other patches but the the tube preamp is dimed), why can't you add additional volume level with another block in the chain (like a flat EQ block) or at the patch output with the mixer block as well? You have like 10s of db of gain you can add.

Seems a lot easier than re-tweaking everything else downward.
 
I had this problem too. My thought was (and I'm very lazy to get to it) to give the OTHER patches more headroom by turning them down and the overall output of the Axe to compensate. That way, the other patches are in the same ballpark as the acoustic, you're not running a risk of clipping the acoustic you're turning it up so loud and everything has more headroom.

-Paul

EDIT: Oh, I see this has already been brought up. For me, there are MULTIPLE patches that need to be set overly loud in order to be heard at all in the mix. My acoustic preset, a preset which I take a cello bow to my tele with, certain ambient stuff. So I don't see this as something to rule out, necessarily.
 
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Paul,

Yeah I ended up turning down the other patches so it wasn't a big deal.

The tube pre sounded okay even with the master maxed out. Seems like there was some coloration going on but not enough to matter live for me. I have the drive on 0 btw. However I was testing with the PA system so I wasn't trying to critically listen to the sound. Instead I was dialing in stuff quick for a Monday gig.

Since I'm a noob, my patches really have nothing but amp and cab, no efx, still the Utra is amazing!!!! My real Shiva, JCM 800 etc. seem sad now lol.

Richard
 
barhrecords said:
Paul,

Yeah I ended up turning down the other patches so it wasn't a big deal.

The tube pre sounded okay even with the master maxed out. Seems like there was some coloration going on but not enough to matter live for me. I have the drive on 0 btw. However I was testing with the PA system so I wasn't trying to critically listen to the sound. Instead I was dialing in stuff quick for a Monday gig.

Since I'm a noob, my patches really have nothing but amp and cab, no efx, still the Utra is amazing!!!! My real Shiva, JCM 800 etc. seem sad now lol.

Richard
Click to expand...

Richard,

Good to hear. I haven't had a chance to take a listen with studio monitors either. I'm still trying to build my acoustic preset optimized to my Hummingbird. That's the best part about the AxeFX, you customize it to YOUR gear. I still consider myself a noob to AxeFX, too, even though I've had it for like 3-4 months now. So much stuff to dive into.

-Paul
 
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