Question on Friedman and other clean amps

T

Thenewexhibit

Experienced
Hey, everyone! I had some questions regarding pairing Fender ish clean tones with the Friedman’s— NOT at the same time, but as channel switching.

A couple observations; maybe I’m late to the party, but are the Friedman’s dark and sizzly amps? I’m finding that I need to turn the bass down to around 3 and the depth down to around 2 to make it not so congested in the low end/mids. (On a side note, it seems the Herbie CH2+ is kind of the Friedman HBE with more mids and clarity, at least to my findings when boosting treble and turning the gain down to around 3-4; that’s a fun amp!)

Back on topic, the problem I seem to be having is getting a good Fender clean tone from say a Twin or a Super with overdrives and having that work well when switching to the Friedman; it’s fine when switching between a clean Fender and the Friedman, but when I use overdrives with the Fender, it’s much more midrangey with less top end, and then the Friedman sounds dark, scooped, and sizzly.

Is this anyone else’s findings? How do you guys pair amps like this to play well with each other sonically so it doesn’t sound like two drastic different shades?
 
I don't know if this directly addresses your question, but I don't pay much attention the name of the particular amp models. If one model doesn't give me the sound or feel I'm looking for within a few minutes of tweaking, I just go to another model. I have yet to find a sound I couldn't get with a bit of experimentation. I use the same approach to drives and other effects, too. Names don't matter...end results do. (At least for me. YMMV.)
 
I would think it’s as simple as dialing in your amps closer to each other. A different sound is different sound. I’m not sure why you would need to have a clean amp with pedals and amps driving hard, it’s just not a practical thing if you want your tones to sit together well in a mix. If you want to use pedals use the fender with them, if you want to use amp drive I would do that.

If you have two entirely different sounds and want them to less different use two amps that are closer.
 
And yes... Friedmans can very much tend to be bass heavy and more sizzly/fizzy on the top end
than the Marshalls they are pretty much based upon. Some think this is was all an "improvement."
 
TG3K said:
I don't know if this directly addresses your question, but I don't pay much attention the name of the particular amp models. If one model doesn't give me the sound or feel I'm looking for within a few minutes of tweaking, I just go to another model. I have yet to find a sound I couldn't get with a bit of experimentation. I use the same approach to drives and other effects, too. Names don't matter...end results do. (At least for me. YMMV.)
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That does kind of help! I kind of learned that yesterday with the Herbert Ch2+; it’s not one I would normally use, but worked great with a little tweaking, so it’s good advice and I do appreciate it!
 
cole lewis said:
I would think it’s as simple as dialing in your amps closer to each other. A different sound is different sound. I’m not sure why you would need to have a clean amp with pedals and amps driving hard, it’s just not a practical thing if you want your tones to sit together well in a mix. If you want to use pedals use the fender with them, if you want to use amp drive I would do that.

If you have two entirely different sounds and want them to less different use two amps that are closer.
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That makes sense of course. I should gone a little more in depth with my post—I usually always use at least a bit of edge of break up or grit, but want the option to go completely clean if needed. I run my scenes in a way where I could get cool edge of break up tones to pushed overdrive with that kind of nashville sound I guess where it has good greasy grit when turning on a pedal, then stacking it to get cool overdrive lead sounds, but if I need to jump to a heavy sound with a little more modern qualities, that’s where the friedman or something similar kicks in. It’s getting all of that to work together sonically is the tricky part. It’s feasible because bigger acts do it all the time. Just wondering what paired well and seeing if anyone else tries to do similar things. I appreciate your response!
 
la noise said:
And yes... Friedmans can very much tend to be bass heavy and more sizzly/fizzy on the top end
than the Marshalls they are pretty much based upon. Some think this is was all an "improvement."
Click to expand...
Got ya! The marshall’s definitely have more midrange which is nice, but I haven’t been able to get them to sound as chunky and punchy/modern as a friedman, which is what I dig about them, so I’m wondering what amps are in that vein, that have the midrange and feel of vintage but more punch of the modern. So far, the Herbert CH2+ was sounding really cool! I’d love to hear more suggestions though! Thank you for the reply!
 
Thenewexhibit said:
Got ya! The marshall’s definitely have more midrange which is nice, but I haven’t been able to get them to sound as chunky and punchy/modern as a friedman, which is what I dig about them, so I’m wondering what amps are in that vein, that have the midrange and feel of vintage but more punch of the modern. So far, the Herbert CH2+ was sounding really cool! I’d love to hear more suggestions though! Thank you for the reply!
Click to expand...

The Atomica and Cornford Amp models may help you get there. :)
 
Thenewexhibit said:
Hey, everyone! I had some questions regarding pairing Fender ish clean tones with the Friedman’s— NOT at the same time, but as channel switching.

A couple observations; maybe I’m late to the party, but are the Friedman’s dark and sizzly amps? I’m finding that I need to turn the bass down to around 3 and the depth down to around 2 to make it not so congested in the low end/mids. (On a side note, it seems the Herbie CH2+ is kind of the Friedman HBE with more mids and clarity, at least to my findings when boosting treble and turning the gain down to around 3-4; that’s a fun amp!)

Back on topic, the problem I seem to be having is getting a good Fender clean tone from say a Twin or a Super with overdrives and having that work well when switching to the Friedman; it’s fine when switching between a clean Fender and the Friedman, but when I use overdrives with the Fender, it’s much more midrangey with less top end, and then the Friedman sounds dark, scooped, and sizzly.

Is this anyone else’s findings? How do you guys pair amps like this to play well with each other sonically so it doesn’t sound like two drastic different shades?
Click to expand...
One thing I would consider is the IR’s you are using. Easy rabbit trail to go down, but I have a few amps I love , but IR choice can have them sounding super dark or bright with same amp settings. The other might be 2x12 vs 4x12, etc …. If the IR’s are consistent, it might make it easier to match them sonically , but not sound the way you want each to in your head.
Also, A lot of Fenders are mid scooped & Friedman/ Marshall are more midrange oriented ….so the ODs tend to add back the mids, but sonically it comes across differently than the amp distortion. I have always been a bigger fan of amp distortion vs ODs, & just dialing the gain down or up depending on the amp type to get the desired cascade of gain stages since you have 4 slots
 
Michael Poe said:
One thing I would consider is the IR’s you are using. Easy rabbit trail to go down, but I have a few amps I love , but IR choice can have them sounding super dark or bright with same amp settings. The other might be 2x12 vs 4x12, etc …. If the IR’s are consistent, it might make it easier to match them sonically , but not sound the way you want each to in your head.
Also, A lot of Fenders are mid scooped & Friedman/ Marshall are more midrange oriented ….so the ODs tend to add back the mids, but sonically it comes across differently than the amp distortion. I have always been a bigger fan of amp distortion vs ODs, & just dialing the gain down or up depending on the amp type to get the desired cascade of gain stages since you have 4 slots
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Suggestion: I really like the Div13FT37 low/ clean channel paired with the 2x12 cabs associated with it. Look in YEK’s amp guide for suggestions on dialing it in …. Excellent amp , very Fender like but sounds better in the clean section to me. Worth a try & I pair it with Friedman, Marshall & the SLO 100 regularly. It’s my go to clean amp.

Also, for a Friedman sound in a Marshall, try the JS410…. My favorite Marshall amp. There are several gain stage options, so try them out & see what you think.
 
I have 3 Friedman’s (BE, SS and X) and actually find them all a bit anorexic in the lows. Maybe I gut busted ones.
my BE100 sounds best with the bass on 10.
 
Dave Merrill said:
Sounds best in a band context, or playing by yourself?
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Honestly sounds best in a mix when recording. Sounds great in a band too. You don’t miss the lows until you compare it to another amp (like the Mezzabarba stuff). Those amps move earth in a very pleasing way. The Friedman stuff seems to be more foolproof where they’ll sit in a mix great and not step on bass and kick. Nothing to carve out.
 
Bruce Sokolovic said:
Honestly sounds best in a mix when recording. Sounds great in a band too. You don’t miss the lows until you compare it to another amp (like the Mezzabarba stuff). Those amps move earth in a very pleasing way. The Friedman stuff seems to be more foolproof where they’ll sit in a mix great and not step on bass and kick. Nothing to carve out.
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very true, friedmans are kinda like finished, produced guitar sound. for some situations that´s perfect, for some not so much.
 
Relative newbie here, but I have 2 similar setups that heavily use the channels feature. For my clean in 1 I use a JC120 with matching cab. Next scene uses a deluxe vibrato at edge of breakup and matching cab, adjusting the mikes somewhat. Next scene is a Dumble with matching cab and again adjusting mikes, and finally is a Friedman that I have as a lead tone. Each amp and cab needed significant tweaking from the others but doing this with the 4 channels I have 4 scenes that seem to work well together (after gig this weekend, I realize I need to boost the volume in the lead channel some more). Also did a second patch with similar layout but a Matchless DC30 as the clean, just for the extra warmth and girth.

10 piece jazz band, use JC for things like New York New York, In the Mood and Bandstand Boogie, Matchless for Celebration, Stray Cat Strut, deluxe vibrato for Proud Mary, Johnny B Goode, etc.
 
Thenewexhibit said:
when I use overdrives with the Fender, it’s much more midrangey with less top end, and then the Friedman sounds dark, scooped, and sizzly.
Click to expand...
I find I usually have to use a completely different type of overdrive with a clean Fender amp than I would with a Friedman. If I did use the same overdrive for both I'd use different settings with Fender amps than I would with Friedmans. You can have four different drives available to you as channels in one drive block. I think you could even have four of the same drive with different settings for each channel.
 
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