Question: Am I the only one? AFX Drive models

Radley

Radley

Experienced
QUESTION: Am I the only one who feels the AFX Drive models sound rather flat compared to their analog counterparts? Don't get me wrong, I am not an '808 snob' or 'Big Muff patsy', and yet I DO miss a certain liveliness from the original pedals. I have found the AFX Drive emulations to be both noisier and less satisfying tonally than the original models - not sure why this would be, but I think it's something worthy of consideration...

EDIT: Towards the end of this thread I had a 'breakthrough' and am now getting some cool tones using only the Drives for distortion.
 
I have never been a Pedal guy when it comes to a distortion or drive but I have noticed (some) of the models do sound like they are laking something. I just use the ones that I like and work with those.
 
I dont use them really.

When I had my real amp I used a sparkle drive, Liquid sunshine or Keeley Blues driver into a cleanish amp so a lot of my sounds. On the axe I just tend to use the amp sims as I can alter the gain levels in them.

On the odd occasion I have tried them Ive not been too happy and quickly gone back to the amps.

The only exception is that I really love the Hard Fuzz into a Brownface amp. Just really works for cutting bluesy stuff.
 
I have the same feeling, i own still a rat 2 and a analogman ds1 and it doesn,t have the liveliness in it in the drive models.
It is not really a big problem but i find it rather strange if you see how really good the ampmodels are.

Maybe it is me but i am not able to get the sound out of it which i am looking for but the strange thing is when i got the Axe it was on firmware 7 and than i was much more impressed with the drivemodels than now.... (this is not based on facts but a feeling and probably i am fooling myself:p)
 
I feel they are ok. I only miss a DS1 model.
Maybe you compared the sound of (real pedal into crancked amp into mixer), so you lost the feedback part. :!:
 
Cliff completely reworked the drive blocks in firmware 8.01 after quite a bit of comment from owners, the changes seemed to satisfy most but opinion has always seemed to be a bit divided on this one. I used to like using some of the drives with various models, recently I've worked out that what I was actually doing was inadvertently using the drive to remove low frequencies, now I just use an eq and get the same effect and boost LF post amp. Great tip that whoever posted that!
 
i think you miss the real function of an pedal, particularly with regard to
push an tubeamp ( there are no tubes you can push, ;) ), so in "real world"
you dramatically change what you Amp do with an pedal before - not so with the Axe...

That said the simulations sound not bad at all for me but the physics is not there...
i use them just to color an preset or just an delay or as boost but not for my main
sound which would be nonsense as i have an big bundle of fantastic tube amps, so
why should i try to get an XY-Sound with pedals when i have the "original" Ampsound
per touch of a button??
 
I wouldn't say they are noisier. I dialed in a vintage silver screw OD-1 of a friend of mine the other day, got pretty close except for the noise the original was producing.

Apart from that I have to say that all the drive pedals I use are my real ones in front of the Axe. Mostly Fuzz pedals, but I do like the Axe Hard Fuzz as well for a different color which IMHO is pretty cool.
 
dongrosh said:
i think you miss the real function of an pedal, particularly with regard to
push an tubeamp ( there are no tubes you can push, ;) ), so in "real world"
you dramatically change what you Amp do with an pedal before - not so with the Axe...

That said the simulations sound not bad at all for me but the physics is not there...
i use them just to color an preset or just an delay or as boost but not for my main
sound which would be nonsense as i have an big bundle of fantastic tube amps, so
why should i try to get an XY-Sound with pedals when i have the "original" Ampsound
per touch of a button??
Click to expand...


True, but a good clean amp like a JC120 or a Twin with a nice drive pedal in front can give some amazing leadtones
wich you can,t copy with only a gainamp.
 
Hmm, I find this post a bit alarming

dongrosh said:
i think you miss the real function of an pedal, particularly with regard to
push an tubeamp ( there are no tubes you can push, ;) ), so in "real world"
you dramatically change what you Amp do with an pedal before - not so with the Axe...
Click to expand...

sorry to say but Fractal Audio claims an axe fx simulates tubetechnology very well, then there is something wrong, either with the drive models or preamp models. It should react like a pushed preamp tube if it's simulated well.

VegaBaby said:
Apart from that I have to say that all the drive pedals I use are my real ones in front of the Axe. Mostly Fuzz pedals, but I do like the Axe Hard Fuzz as well for a different color which IMHO is pretty cool.
Click to expand...

Does the axe react well to that? I have vintage RAT pedals I really like in front of an already overdriven channel, a thing tons of guitarists do. I expect my Ultra this week, so I didn't put any of them for sale as I figured that the one RAT drive model in the axe was not going to replace my 3 pedal RATS, who have the same base fuzz, but a different amount of drive/grit by themselves.
 
I have compared the drives in the AXE FX to many drive/distortion pedals and have no problem getting very similar tones (mostly variations of tubescreamers and a Keeley Rat). The biggest problem I have with the drives is that I can't get them to cut through the mix in a band/live situation. When I am at home tweaking and engage a drive I get a perceived boost but it just doesn't translate to a live situation. I solved this problem by throwing a filter block in the chain and boosting the signal another 10dbs; however, I have to step on two switches to get the volume that I need for solos.
 
Silverburst said:
sorry to say but Fractal Audio claims an axe fx simulates tubetechnology very well, then there is something wrong, either with the drive models or preamp models. It should react like a pushed preamp tube if it's simulated well.

Does the axe react well to that? I have vintage RAT pedals I really like in front of an already overdriven channel, a thing tons of guitarists do. I expect my Ultra this week, so I didn't put any of them for sale as I figured that the one RAT drive model in the axe was not going to replace my 3 pedal RATS, who have the same base fuzz, but a different amount of drive/grit by themselves.
Click to expand...

I have 4 different fuzzes I use in front of the AxeFX. It works very well. Don't use them in the Effects Loop. I have used the Fuzz in the Drive block a lot more since they were last updated.
 
Have to say the axe drives are really good, but I still use various fuzz pedals in front as well..
..anyway - for ipressthebutton's excellent recommendation about the filter block... if you have a modifier available, you can assign a modifier to the filter block 'bypass type' (set to thru) - with start at 0, end at 100 (or visa versa) - then assign the modifier to the same CC as the drive bypass. now selecting drive will simultaneously enable filter.
(of course, you could always assign the filter to the same CC as the drive, but this is another way to control it, and if you have already assigned the filter bypass CC, it overrides the 'global' filter CC for that patch )
 
Well, I guess it's possible I'm not used to hearing ODs in front of the Axe's Amp models, but they don't seem to sound as I would expect considering the awesome quality of the Amp models. Sometimes for lower gain OD patches I have used a totally clean Amp with an OD in front of it (OD supplies all the distortion) - although this has worked well for me in the past, I don't quite get what I expect from the AFX doing it. This is not a major problem for me because of the abundance of great Amp models, but it has caught my attention lately - just wondered if I was the only one who had experienced this...
 
To me, they do seem to "flatten" the sound a bit. I use the Mix control in the Drive block and set that anywhere from 50% to about 75% depending on the drive. This seems to keep the drive from dominating the overall amp tone and makes it feel a little more 3D.
 
Seems kinda sad that you may still need to use your own drive pedals in front of the Axe FX. Defeats part of the purpose if you ask me. My own personal objective is get rid of most my pedals.

Maybe I just need to spend more time with the drive blocks. Experimenting with lowering the Mix does seem to "clean up" the drives a bit (for want of a better word), or what Kev said, keep the drive from dominating the overall amp tone.
 
kev said:
To me, they do seem to "flatten" the sound a bit. I use the Mix control in the Drive block and set that anywhere from 50% to about 75% depending on the drive. This seems to keep the drive from dominating the overall amp tone and makes it feel a little more 3D.
Click to expand...

Using the Mix control is a great suggestion that I also use for light overdrive tones. Another suggestion I have is change the Clip Type to the 4558 Diode setting, IMO it soundsbetter than the SI Diode. Prior to the AXE FX my rig was based around a bf fender type amp (Allen, Bruno) with two overdrives and a distortion pedal in front. I am a bit of an overdrive junky and own many different ones and have compared them to the AXE FX drives. The tones are in there but often you have to do some deep editing.
 
Silverburst said:
VegaBaby said:
Apart from that I have to say that all the drive pedals I use are my real ones in front of the Axe. Mostly Fuzz pedals, but I do like the Axe Hard Fuzz as well for a different color which IMHO is pretty cool.
Click to expand...

Does the axe react well to that? I have vintage RAT pedals I really like in front of an already overdriven channel, a thing tons of guitarists do. I expect my Ultra this week, so I didn't put any of them for sale as I figured that the one RAT drive model in the axe was not going to replace my 3 pedal RATS, who have the same base fuzz, but a different amount of drive/grit by themselves.
Click to expand...
Yes it does. That was one of the main tests it had to pass when I purchased it.
 
Ochanomizu said:
Seems kinda sad that you may still need to use your own drive pedals in front of the Axe FX. Defeats part of the purpose if you ask me. My own personal objective is get rid of most my pedals.
Click to expand...
I don't agree 100% there. I never saw the Axe as a 'replace all - never need anything else again' unit. It doesn't model everything and where's the problem to make your rig even better and personal with some nice additions ?
 
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