question about panning effects

frankiev

Experienced
I just set up a WDW preset and I have a question about panning the wet effects left and right .What I did was set up a dry path down the center then a parallel delay and reverb path on the left and right . I used the balance control in the output section to pan the effects left and right and left the dry in the center . It worked perfectly but Is there a better way ? can I pan the effects at their individual outputs ?
 

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One path from reverb with balance control centered will produce the same result, or you can just rejoin the dry line and use the reverb level as your wet level control.

If you don't want a higher reverb mix on delay repeats than on the non-delayed signal (which would have no reverb if delay mix is 100%) you'll need to add a connection from the dry line to the reverb block. Or you could get the same result with one serial path, using delay mix & level to get the right delay amount and overall level.
 
You might want to try putting the delay and the reverb in their own separate paths. That way you won't delay the reverb or reverberate the delay (unless thats what you want). You might like the clarity the separation produces.
 
As Bakerman notes, you could do this with a single row.

I am guessing that you don't recognize that each of the rows is a full stereo path.

The reason your "center" is mono in the middle is because you've used blocks that sum the input and produce identical left and right channel signals.
 
...or you can just rejoin the dry line and use the reverb level as your wet level control.
Assuming the use of stereo cabinets does rejoining the line with hard left and right panning of the ambient and delay effects sound the same as running a separate line?
If so, then the only reason to run a separate line to the output would be to real-world separate the wet and dry with non-stereo multiple real-cabinets outside of the simulation. Real world wet/dry is BTW really fun to mess with.
 
scotts said:
Assuming the use of stereo cabinets does rejoining the line with hard left and right panning of the ambient and delay effects sound the same as running a separate line?

If you mean with a preset like the screenshots above, yes. (Cab block or actual speaker system being stereo or mono doesn't change that answer.) Multiple lines to the end gives you level & balance controls for each row on one page. Other than that convenience, there's no difference from combining to one path as early as possible.
 
Sorry for the delay in response and thanks for the replys . Matman and Bakerman My intention was to produce a dry signal in the center of a stereo field with the effects only on the left and right . How can I do that in a single row ?

Assuming the use of stereo cabinets does rejoining the line with hard left and right panning of the ambient and delay effects sound the same as running a separate line?
If so, then the only reason to run a separate line to the output would be to real-world separate the wet and dry with non-stereo multiple real-cabinets outside of the simulation. Real world wet/dry is BTW really fun to mess with.
I had not even thought about stereo cabs and Im sorry to say every time I read what you posted my eyes cross and I go blank .Can you explain in simpler terms .Also with regards to rejoining the line with hard L and R panning of the effects .I could find no way to pan the effects themselves . Even the stereo delay only has a balance for l/r not an actual pan .Thats why I used the output mixer to pan. Unless you mean panning the stereo cab but then how do I produce a center dry ?
I used to run a wet dry setup and loved the clarity . I had the center dry through a marshall superlead to a 4x12 cab and wet to a SS amp then to 2 -2x12s on either side of the 4x12 .
 
frankiev said:
I had not even thought about stereo cabs and Im sorry to say every time I read what you posted my eyes cross and I go blank. Can you explain in simpler terms...
I used to run a wet dry setup and loved the clarity. I had the center dry through a marshall superlead to a 4x12 cab and wet to a SS amp then to 2 -2x12s on either side of the 4x12 .

~Sorry for the confusion. I am an old hand at real world wet/dry but I have only had my Axe for a few days and I have been to life-busy to spend more than a little time with it.~

It would seem that to experiment with the simulated wet/dry we are wondering about you will need to run stereo and you will need three separate lines to the output mixer as you have shown.
Try this:
Run your amp the way you have it in your picture and pan it to center. Run a 100% wet delay/reverb combo (either serial or parallel) to one output and pan it hard left. Run another independent delay/reverb combo set 100% wet to a different output and pan it hard right.

See if this approximates the sound/feel of your old wet/dry rig. It is possible that unless you isolate the wet signals to their own real world cabinets like in your old rig all of this might not have a significant affect on the sound.

Also, here is a sure fire way to get your old wet/dry sound:
Run your dry amp to its own output line and pan hard right.
Run your wet effect line to its own output and pan hard left.
You wont have a stereo field but you will have old school, two cabinet wet/dry.

If your dry line is too dry add a little bit of serial tape echo. Just a little bit.
 
Thanks for the reply . What confused me more than anything was the reply that I could use just a single row to achive this .
As far as wet/dry to seperate real world cabs .You could use the loop to send the dry amp to output 2 mono .Then send the effects to output 1 in stereo .I was going to do this at one time . Dry to my RCF 310 .Wet to my mackie HR824's .
 
frankiev said:
My intention was to produce a dry signal in the center of a stereo field with the effects only on the left and right . How can I do that in a single row ?

Place the blocks in a row and set mix controls to get the desired amount of each effect.

If the cab block balance is centered, the delay block will output the centered dry signal plus delay repeats. Where those repeats are in the stereo field is determined by the delay settings. Similarly, adding a reverb block will maintain the stereo field of the incoming signal (dry + delay repeats) while adding reverb.

If you want effects in parallel with each other or something else like an effect on delay repeats only or reverb panned toward one side with dry + delay unaltered, parallel routing becomes necessary.
 
Epiphany..... I can use the mixer (doh) to mix/pan wet effects in parallel .This would allow reverb panned hard L and R in the stereo field .Then perhaps delay panned a little closer to center and maybe a chorus panned just a bit off center with the absolute center dry . As borat would say .. very nice
 
frankiev said:
Epiphany..... I can use the mixer (doh) to mix/pan wet effects in parallel .This would allow reverb panned hard L and R in the stereo field .Then perhaps delay panned a little closer to center and maybe a chorus panned just a bit off center with the absolute center dry . As borat would say .. very nice
Can you explain how you think a mixer block can do that? From my (admittedly limited) experience with mixer blocks, they are used to (1) balance the levels between signal chains on the four rows of the matrix, and (2) for each of those 4 rows, you also happen to have a balance control. I fail to see how that would allow you to spread the reverb's stereo field while narrowing the delay's stereo field... but maybe I just haven't had the epiphany yet? From what I can tell, the best you could achieve is balance the delay to one side and the reverb to another side (assuming the two blocks are on different rows), but not narrow or widen their spread from center.

Also note that if you want to narrow a stereo delay's field, just reduce its "spread" parameter (on page 2) to something less than 100%. I'm not sure if the reverb block has any control that allows you to narrow its stereo width, but that wasn't what you were talking about anyway.

Daniel
 
Your correct Id have to use 2 mixers one for the left and one for the right . Couldnt the spread be controlled by using the balance controls .The reverb would be set wide and the delay less so ?
Maybe it wasnt much of an epiphany after all.
 
Well, the spread is controllable by the front panel, but can also be assigned to a controller. I'm not sure I quite understand what you,re trying to do, but if you're looking for real-time control of the spreadd, it can be done (with a controller attached). If you're just looking for a way to narrow the delay's spread and leave it set like that, then just turn it down from 100%, save the preset, and you're done.
 
Dpoirier said:
I'm not sure I quite understand what you,re trying to do...
I think he is trying to find a way to get his Axe running in stereo to simulate a real three cabinet wet/dry rig. That would be a guitar amp with 100% dry tone in the center and separate cabinets on both sides putting out only 100% wet effects. In its real world incarnation it isn't a stereo field, it's a blended sound from three independent cabinets. The wet cabinets could be stereo effects or one could have just wet delay and the other just wet reverb. It's a great sound. I'm not sure the full effect of the three cabinet live version can be matched with just a stereo field.
 
Not having an actual center speaker is what makes this slightly easier. There's no need for a separate dry signal path in addition to the left & right wet signals. Equal level in left & right speakers is what gives the impression of a sound being centered. Running through delay & reverb within one row won't shift the dry signal or repeats or alter the stereo-ness of the reverb or change the tone of anything. Place delay & reverb in parallel if you don't want reverb on delay repeats.

For chorus off center you can place it in parallel at 100% mix and set the balance off center. Same thing if you want reverb on one side only: place in parallel at 100% mix, balance to one side.
 
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