Question about bedroom punch

E

Eman7422

Inspired
I have a pair of adam A7x monitors and love ax8 through them. They excel at any volume and I also find it good to mix on them etc... Couldn't be happier.

However for practice in my music room at home which is a converted bedroom, I cannot often crank up anything.

I'm after punch, and honestly think you can get there at medium volume with a larger speaker pushing more air. I want to feel the punch in my chest.

So not the typical how do I get great tone at whisper levels....but rather how do I get the punch in a bedroom, at let's call it medium volume.

I assume things like clr, xitone, matrix will do it, but cannot afford that right now....so how do I get there, with quality tone, on a lower budget....is the alto an answer, or the new headrush frfr...and is there something with a 10 or 12 inch speaker with a smaller footprint?.. A square?

What do you guys recommend if this all makes sense.

Thanks on advance for your advice/wisdom.
 
I’m not sure how the extra moving air isn’t going to mean lots of volume as the moving air is what’s translating the sound waves. You’ll get them from a point source with a speaker cab, which might help over the dispersed stereo monitors. Have you tried strapping a speaker to your chest - that would directly couple the sound source to the receiver ;-)
 
You can try and add a bit of proximity effect on the cab block... It won't punch your chest, but it might get you a small step towards low volume happiness.

Assuming you've exhausted all options of more volume
 
Did an experiment......thoughts?

Plugged my ax8 into the front of a cheap, 1x8 crate 15 watt practice amp with a low end celestion speaker in it, I believe the seventy 80. Left the cab sims ON in ax8. Ran into the clean channel of amp and tried to dial in as neutral a ton as possible....settings on the crate were bass at 2, mids 5-6, treble at 4-5. Volume on amp pretty low at 2-3. The crate was on the floor, but tilted back. Again, used my regular presets, cab sims on, power amp modelling on, have the two xlr outs running to my mackie mixer into my adam a7 x, and the 1/4 inch out directly to front of amp.

At the same perceived volume level, as I went back and forth manually between the 2 rigs....I was getting more punch from the crate.....I'm not saying it sounded better.....it didn't sound bad ....but I'm saying it had more punch for lack of a better word...

So am I nuts?

Is it the slightly larger speaker (8 inches vs 7)
The open cab?
Shape of the cab, big square vs. Vertices rectangle of adam a7x?
The near field aspect of a7x vs. The crate?
Something else?

This is why I am thinking a 10–12 inch frfr, wedge or powered speaker on the floor, might be fun.....but could be wrong.....
 
If you're on a budget, get Alto TS212 or the 10" equivalent. Some hints from the user:

- don't place it on the floor though, it can sound boomy and ugly with some IRs (so un-couple it from the floor)
- use 1x12 IR, my fav is 150 factory cab lately (why 1x12? to my ears some of those often sound very natural, having more in the face or "in the room" than "mic'ed and processed" feeling)
- place a looper in front of the chain
- record some riffs and hit play
- having free hands experiment with low cut, proximity, low resonance
- dunno why, but for me a very slightly undermatched transformer - XFRMR MATCH parameter - changes a lot when seeking this effect you probably also want to hear.
 
If you’re strictly after something to use for ‘practice’ in your bedroom and the crate works, go for it. Any preset you use at low levels won’t sound the same at mid volume or gig volume. I know we’re all seeking a one fits all solution or at least I was. But once I got past this.....and it took a while, it’s more simple for me: I either use an amp like you with different presets or a FRFR with an EQ’d preset just for that volume level and to practice.
 
I get volume and all that. I have gig presets and recording direct presets....just trying to have a little fun and enjoy medium loud punch....but not gig volume.

Studio monitors (near field) sound great and feel in terms of response to picking is there.....just miss some punch and trying to figure out a way.

The crate opens an idea, but itself doesn't sound all that great.
 
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Saw a qsc k8

How would that be in a bedroom size, or do I need the 10?

Also, do the 8 and or the 10 have fans in them?

If so, what are similar products without a fan?

Feel like in a bedroom studio, the fan will bother me.
 
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Further observation from this afternoon.

My a7x monitors do sound awesome.

The punch also does come from volume, but with studio monitors, it really and I mean really makes a difference where you physically sit, you have to be exactly in the sweet spot, and then disassociate with reality, in that the the sound appears to come from right out in front of you....even though the speakers are to the sides......

Also need to be in that spot to really "hear" what the amp sim and ir are giving you.....hearing the detail and nuance.

So it seems as though if I want to move around, or be in a different spot in my bedroom studio, I really need some way to monitor that fills the room but isn't so directional as the monitors.

I did try cranking just 1 ax7 but I had to have it quite loud, and still seemed too focused....also was better when I stood...so that I was above it and also practically right on top of it....so again, need something decent......under $500 that will sound great, fill the room and not be "near field".

Love the monitors for recording, tracking and mixing...but for just "rocking" out....can be tough..

Thoughts?
 
Tahoebrian5 said:
Anybody try adding a small sub to studio monitors for thump?
Click to expand...

I find for guitar it really makes zero difference.

I have the Presonus T10 Temblor sub, and I run the low pass filter at 80 Hz, where it blends best with my 6" monitors, basically doing its job of adding some low end response, and it does that well down to about 30ish Hz. Here is the thing though, I typically low cut all my patches at about 100 Hz, if not a bit higher. Guitar just really is more of a mid-range instrument, as anyone who's played with a bass player finds, you need to have some 'room' in the frequency spectrum for each instrument.

As a result, I really notice no difference in guitar when I have my sub active, or when I have it bypassed. The T10 has a cool little foot switch option which can active the sub, or you can send the full range to the desktop monitors, which is great for see how much difference it makes in a mix.

Plenty of good reasons to have a sub, and I love it for my synth stuff, basslines etc, but it just doesn't really do much for guitar, as the low E or D palm mutes just aren't really low enough to be reproduced by it.
 
Eman7422 said:
Further observation from this afternoon.

My a7x monitors do sound awesome.

The punch also does come from volume, but with studio monitors, it really and I mean really makes a difference where you physically sit, you have to be exactly in the sweet spot, and then disassociate with reality, in that the the sound appears to come from right out in front of you....even though the speakers are to the sides......

Also need to be in that spot to really "hear" what the amp sim and ir are giving you.....hearing the detail and nuance.

So it seems as though if I want to move around, or be in a different spot in my bedroom studio, I really need some way to monitor that fills the room but isn't so directional as the monitors.

I did try cranking just 1 ax7 but I had to have it quite loud, and still seemed too focused....also was better when I stood...so that I was above it and also practically right on top of it....so again, need something decent......under $500 that will sound great, fill the room and not be "near field".

Love the monitors for recording, tracking and mixing...but for just "rocking" out....can be tough..

Thoughts?
Click to expand...

Just get larger speakers! I used to use a set of 8" near fields and they would work to a certain volume then they give up. Bottom line is near field monitors are just not meant for really hi SPL's especially in the lowend. You can but they will not last long and sound like ass.

If your wanting to rock out your going to need bigger monitors with more power to get what your looking for. Personally I would look for a good deal on an older CLR or similar size speaker! And just because it's larger doesn't mean you have to run it at ear bleed levels, but at least you have that option if you want to.
 
I think some of it comes down to dispersion pattern and speaker efficiency. Beamy guitar speakers project a narrower or more focused beam of sound waves directly in front of the speakers. If you are in the path of that beam, you'll feel it pushing against you more. Studio monitors on the other hand generally have a more wide and uniform dispersion so it is more evenly spread throughout the room. Think of is sort of like an adjustable spray nozzle on a garden hose. A narrow stream of water will push against you more than a wide fanned out spray of water, even if the amount of water flow is the same between them (audio power output). The difference is the same amount of energy is focused into a smaller area. This also affects the way the sound bounces around the room and also leads to the endless "amp in the room" vs FRFR debate.
 
You want punch, you need to push air. I dont really see any other way.
I mean you can get great tones at low volumes, but if you want to feel it, you need to crank a bit.
Unless I am missing something.

You could save a little money on FR speakers by building your own if your tech somewhat savvy.

https://www.parts-express.com/celes...source=google&utm_medium=cpc&utm_campaign=pla

https://www.parts-express.com/dayto...channel-with-dsp-and-bluetooth-1000---300-791

https://www.seismicaudiospeakers.com/products/vintage-empty-guitar-cabinet-1x12-black-wheat

Same components as the Xitone I believe.

:)
 
Eman7422 said:
Saw a qsc k8

How would that be in a bedroom size, or do I need the 10?

Also, do the 8 and or the 10 have fans in them?

If so, what are similar products without a fan?

Feel like in a bedroom studio, the fan will bother me.
Click to expand...

Above mentioned Alto TS212 don't have fan and are dead quiet.
 
I bought a pair of the new headrush frfr monitors, and they sound awesome live with a band or just practicing. Don't let the price fool you; just because they're inexpensive doesn't mean they sound inferior. For travel, I use a roland cube to monitor my ax8, which is satisfactory for hotel room levels.
 
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