Question about a setup idea (with tube amp and LB-2 in loop)

Guitarjon

Fractal Fanatic
Hey guys,

I've been using a lot of tube amps alongside of my Axe Fx III lately but I often miss a little bit of flexibility.
For example it would be great if I could record the dry DI tracks alongside a tube amp track (so tracked with my tube amp).

I've come up with a setup that could help me achieve this and much more.
I'm not a 100% sure if this would work though, and I hope you guys can help me find out if it's doable.

So it would look like this:

Guitar - AFIII front input - AFIII rear output (not sure which one, just an unbalanced or humbuster Jack output I imagine) - Tube amp input - Tube amp speaker output - LB-2 X-Load - Unbalanced output of LB-2 - Rear input Axe fx, also unbalanced.

I would then be able to use the Axe Fx III for pre and post effects plus the cab block AND be able to record the DI tracks from input one.

One question though, would I then also be able to reamp the DI tracks back through the tube amp?
I would think yes?

Pretty exciting setup though.
Wouldn't have to change any cables if I just want to record the Axe fx signal without the loop on etc.
 
Hey guys,

I've been using a lot of tube amps alongside of my Axe Fx III lately but I often miss a little bit of flexibility.
For example it would be great if I could record the dry DI tracks alongside a tube amp track (so tracked with my tube amp).

I've come up with a setup that could help me achieve this and much more.
I'm not a 100% sure if this would work though, and I hope you guys can help me find out if it's doable.

So it would look like this:

Guitar - AFIII front input - AFIII rear output (not sure which one, just an unbalanced or humbuster Jack output I imagine) - Tube amp input - Tube amp speaker output - LB-2 X-Load - Unbalanced output of LB-2 - Rear input Axe fx, also unbalanced.

I would then be able to use the Axe Fx III for pre and post effects plus the cab block AND be able to record the DI tracks from input one.

One question though, would I then also be able to reamp the DI tracks back through the tube amp?
I would think yes?

Pretty exciting setup though.
Wouldn't have to change any cables if I just want to record the Axe fx signal without the loop on etc.

Yes indeed, I've done this before when shotting comparison clips between the Axe and real amps . Use output 3 or 4 from the Axe to the front of the amp for the best results.
 
Yes indeed, I've done this before when shotting comparison clips between the Axe and real amps . Use output 3 or 4 from the Axe to the front of the amp for the best results.

Great, and then crank the output level completely to achieve unity gain right?
 
It's working!!
I did have to press the gnd/lift button on the back of the LB-2 to get rid of a feedback loop but it does sound great!
There is also another multi effect pedal in a different loop which I can also enable and place anywhere I want to in the chain.
Good stuff!
 
yes, this setup is big fun and so flexible...for kicks and overkill, ive even run each of my Guytron’s two speaker outs to an lb2 and UAD Ox concurrently....all running thru the III
 
hmm, I've been getting hum unfortunately when using the amp and loadbox in the loop.
The hum goes away when I plug my guitar in the front of the amp instead of the front axe fx input.
The ground/lift switch in the loadbox is pressed in because there was a loop going on, not a hum loop but rather a feedback loop.
But now that I'm still getting that hum, I'm not sure what to do.
I did try different cables, unfortunately that didn't work.

This whole setup, so Axe FX III, amp and load-box are pretty close to my PC since I'm using the Axe FX as the USB interface.
Could the PC cause some hum perhaps?
 
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hmm, I've been getting hum unfortunately when using the amp and loadbox in the loop.
The hum goes away when I plug my guitar in the front of the amp instead of the front axe fx input.
The ground/lift switch in the loadbox is pressed in because there was a loop going on, not a hum loop but rather a feedback loop.
But now that I'm still getting that hum, I'm not sure what to do.
I did try different cables, unfortunately that didn't work.

This whole setup, so Axe FX III, amp and load-box are pretty close to my PC since I'm using the Axe FX as the USB interface.
Could the PC cause some hum perhaps?
have you tried Humbuster cables ?
 
I've been wanting to test this, my approach would be to have the amp return to the Axe Fx using the FX Send and bypass the power amp section altogether, using the tube amp as a preamp stack only in the Axe Fx chain.

I'd use the loadbox only to protect the amp, but I keep the master volume dialed down.

Is this the wrong approach or should we insert the power amp section as well?
 
I have not... I must admit that I'm not very good with modifying gear, I can't even solder. Lol
I guess I should try that though.
I use 4cm to integrate my JVM with the Axe.
  • Guitar -> AFX Input 1
  • AFX Output 3 -> Guitar Input on Amp
  • Amp FX Send -> AFX Input 4
  • AFX Output 4 -> Amp FX Return
Outputs 3 and 4 are set for unity gain. Outputs 3 and 4 are connected to the amp with Humbuster cables. They eliminate ground loop hum.

There are multiple types of hum/buzz you can get in a guitar rig. The Humbuster cables will only help you with ground loops. If with the system hooked up, the guitar connected and the guitar volume all the way down you are hearing hum you probably have a ground loop and humbusters will likely help you. However if the rig is silent until you turn up the guitar volume then you get the hum/buzz, you are experiencing inducted noise. Humbusters will not help you with inducted noise.

This assumes good cables in working order. The first step in eliminating system noise is to verify your cables. I have bought cable sets that had issues straight out of the packaging. When integrating my Axe I had noise that I could not get rid of. I was using brand new TRS cables to connect some of my outboard gear to the Axe and thought they should be good. Eventually I started swapping out some of the TRS cables. The last bit of noise that I could not get rid of turned out to be caused by one of the brand new TRS cables connecting my Axe to my ISP Decimator ProRack G. When I swapped that one cable, the rig finally was silent.
 
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I use 4cm to integrate my JVM with the Axe.
  • Guitar -> AFX Input 1
  • AFX Output 3 -> Guitar Input on Amp
  • Amp FX Send -> AFX Input 4
  • AFX Output 4 -> Amp FX Return
Outputs 3 and 4 are set for unity gain. Outputs 3 and 4 are connected to the amp with Humbuster cables. They eliminate ground loop hum.

There are multiple types of hum/buzz you can get in a guitar rig. The Humbuster cables will only help you with ground loops. If with the system hooked up, the guitar connected and the guitar volume all the way down you are hearing hum you probably have a ground loop and humbusters will likely help you. However if the rig is silent until you turn up the guitar volume then you get the hum/buzz, you are experiencing inducted noise. Humbusters will not help you with inducted noise.

When I turn down the guitar itself there is still hum present.
I guess it should be fixable with humbuster cables then!
Would I need to only have two humbuster cables in front the amp and after the loadbox to fix this?
 
I use 4cm to integrate my JVM with the Axe.
  • Guitar -> AFX Input 1
  • AFX Output 3 -> Guitar Input on Amp
  • Amp FX Send -> AFX Input 4
  • AFX Output 4 -> Amp FX Return

Where do you go from here? You send the Amp Out to to a speaker cab?

So it's mostly an integration to use the Axe Fx as an FX processor and have fx before and after the amp's preamp stack, correct?
 
When I turn down the guitar itself there is still hum present.
I guess it should be fixable with humbuster cables then!
Would I need to only have two humbuster cables in front the amp and after the loadbox to fix this?
I added some info about cable verification on my last post. Using bad cables or the wrong type of cable for the connection (TRS vs TS) can cause noise.

I am not familiar with connections through a load box though making the linkage between the Axe and the return to the load box with a Humbuster *should* help.

Here is another little detail. I have an EBTech Hum Eliminator HE-8 in my rack. All of my inter-connections with the exception of the Humbuster connections go through the HE-8.

So my FX send actually look like:

Amp FX send -> HE-8 (TS Cable)
HE-8 -> AFX Input 4 (TRS Cable)

Each rig is unique. It took about an hour of shuffling cables around to figure out how to get my rig silent. I bought several bulk packs of 18” TRS and TS patch cables for this exercise. Once I had the rig silent, I replaced the cables with custom cut cabling of the appropriate type.

If you would like, later tonight I can document all of the specific connections I had to make and the specific cables I used.
 
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If you have any gain on that channel, that would be common.
If so, any chance you can't correct that lowering the gate threshold on the axe fx input, maybe?
No, If hum is present with no guitar signal you have a ground loop or some other problem. I am running a JVM and mostly use my red channels. It has a lot of gain. I can crank my gain all the way to 10 with the ISP Decimator disengaged and the rig is dead silent when the guitar volume is rolled off.

The process of lowering the noise floor on my rig itself has been quite a journey. There were problems with my tubes. Then there was a problem with my output transformer. Then there was a grounding issue with the effect loop.

I got those sorted out then focused on ground loops in my system. My system is free of ground loops now.

I placed my entire rig behind an isolation transformer to deal with conducted noise.

Now I am working on inducted noise.
 
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No, If hum is present with no guitar signal you have a ground loop or some other problem. I am running a JVM and mostly use my red channels. It has a lot of gain. I can crank my gain all the way to 10 with the ISP Decimator disengaged and the rig is dead silent when the guitar volume is rolled off.

I do get noise on my tube amps gain channels without the guitar plugged in, but it's mostly hiss, not hum.
 
I do get noise on my tube amps gain channels without the guitar plugged in, but it's mostly hiss, not hum.
Without the guitar plugged in is a different story. You can get buzz from that.

I am talking about a guitar connected to the rig with the guitar volume all the way down.
 
Without the guitar plugged in is a different story. You can get buzz from that.

I am talking about a guitar connected to the rig with the guitar volume all the way down.

C'mon, you're nit picking my words. I also get hiss from the amp with the guitar plugged in and the volume down, duh.

Amps put out noise, that's just how it is.
That "regular" noise is to be expected and can be corrected with a noise gate.

Where I absolutely agree with you is that most of the "other" noise is generated by issues of either interference or ground looping and can be corrected, and can be painstaking to trouble shoot.

I've taken care of most of the noise in my tube amps setup by using a well designed pedalboard with a looper effects switching system (I use a Gigrig G2), and humbuster cables on most of my connections. I also use a gate and have all my drives and the amp's preamp in it's loop to take care of gain stage hiss and other noises amplification, as I do tend to use a lot of gain in my sounds.

Axe Fx integration into my rig is a new thing to me and I'll tackle noise issues as they come along, you're tips will come in handy eventually, so thanks for sharing.
 
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