Queensryche "Operation: Mindcrime" era clean

Jiffzillla

Jiffzillla

Experienced
Looking for those cleaner than clean tones that are found all over the Operation: Mindcrime album.
Examples would be the second half of the intro to "Revolution Calling" and the verses of "I Don't Believe In Love". Would love to nail these tones. Thanks! :)
 
I LOVE Operation Mindcrime, but I don't mind getting their sound with the Axefx. I think some of the clean sound is direct (preamp) into compressor, chorus & delay. Set the eq to nail the tone, try FAS clean with sag at 0. Sometimes the clean is mild overdriven, very soft. I don't know if it was recorded that way or if it is the result of the sound of my tape deck...! :lol:
 
xrist04 said:
You might even try a (gasp!) "ampless" chain.
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Hmmm...interesting. Hadn't thought of that, but you may be on to something there. I'm assuming you mean completely "ampless" and not the Tube Pre in the amp block. Yes?
 
I've tried the 'ampless' route before and found it to sound too much like an acoustic guitar.

For me turning Sag to 0, which basically switches off the power amp sim, works nicely. It takes out the usually wanted 'warmth' and gives you more of that sterile 'Rockman' feel...
 
I've been trying to nail tones from this album for 20 years! I particularly love DeGarmo's lead tone on The Mission and Breaking The Silence but I've never been able to figure out what processing he used to get that sound. Is that a subtle detune/chorus effect or a pitch-shift adding an octave up? Anybody know what amps they used on this album? This was the pre-Bogner days, right? I read that the acoustic sounds you can hear on tracks like Suite Sister Mary were Ovation guitars played through Marshall stacks! :shock: This explains why for ages I couldn't tell whether I was hearing an electric or acoustic guitar! :lol:
 
Stringtheorist said:
I particularly love DeGarmo's lead tone on The Mission and Breaking The Silence but I've never been able to figure out what processing he used to get that sound. Is that a subtle detune/chorus effect or a pitch-shift adding an octave up?
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I think there is a hint of delay, when the strings are bended you get a chorused sound, AND a pitch shift. There could be heavily post processed sound. I heard them live, and their sound was more raw and simple.

Stringtheorist said:
Anybody know what amps they used on this album? This was the pre-Bogner days, right? I read that the acoustic sounds you can hear on tracks like Suite Sister Mary were Ovation guitars played through Marshall stacks! :shock: This explains why for ages I couldn't tell whether I was hearing an electric or acoustic guitar! :lol:
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Nice trick, glad to know! I think similar sound is possible with a piezo equiped guitar. In live setting they use mostly Marshall, but they could be modded.
I'm sure the Axe can nail the tone of Degarmo!
 
I read somewhere years ago that thy used these programmable digital ART EQs if I remember correctly (which were very powerful toneshapers back then). I think DeGarmo also used an SPX90 and Eventides.
 
The clean sounds on that record were recorded with a Rockman direct into the console with some mids removed around 500hz. using the built in chorus on some songs and a 2290 on others
 
jasonslater said:
The clean sounds on that record were recorded with a Rockman direct into the console with some mids removed around 500hz. using the built in chorus on some songs and a 2290 on others
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Another reason why my wish for a Rockman Clean model in the Axe would come in handy ;) .
 
Rockman clean chorus sound was used all over in the 80's. Steve Stevens used it for some classic Billy Idol clean tones. Def Leppard used it on Hysteria. It just cuts right through the mix so nicely.
 
AdamCook said:
Rockman clean chorus sound was used all over in the 80's. Steve Stevens used it for some classic Billy Idol clean tones. Def Leppard used it on Hysteria. It just cuts right through the mix so nicely.
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Absolutely. And I think it would fit right in with Cliff's 'policy' regarding which amps should be modeled/included in the Axe. If it would be sooooo easy to get the same tone from any other amp, why did everyone use it ? In a Def Leppard interview on 'The Making of Hysteria' dvd they even say that they went with Mutt Lange through all possible amps and combinations but in the end used Rockmans because that was the only thing to deliver that tone...
 
VegaBaby said:
Absolutely. And I think it would fit right in with Cliff's 'policy' regarding which amps should be modeled/included in the Axe. If it would be sooooo easy to get the same tone from any other amp, why did everyone use it ? In a Def Leppard interview on 'The Making of Hysteria' dvd they even say that they went with Mutt Lange through all possible amps and combinations but in the end used Rockmans because that was the only thing to deliver that tone...
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I think the deal with the Rockman tone (clean and dirty) is that it basically comes "pre-EQ'd" to sit in the mix nicely. For the high-gained tones this includes a pretty sharp low shelf so it doesn't interfere with the bass. Then crank the hell out of the mids in the 800hz to 1k range. I'm guessing this is what Cliff's Rockman preset is doing although I don't have my Axe next to me to check right now.

The EQ for the clean sounds I'm less familiar with. I'd have to get my hands on one to mess around with.

You can hear on any Mutt Lange recording that he really doesn't like the guitars interfering much with the bass frequency range. He always has a very defined frequency space for each instrument. That's probably why he liked the Rockman so much.

I think you can get there with other amps and EQ (including the Axe-FX). It just takes more work whereas the Rockman gives you that tone out of the box.
 
AdamCook said:
VegaBaby said:
Absolutely. And I think it would fit right in with Cliff's 'policy' regarding which amps should be modeled/included in the Axe. If it would be sooooo easy to get the same tone from any other amp, why did everyone use it ? In a Def Leppard interview on 'The Making of Hysteria' dvd they even say that they went with Mutt Lange through all possible amps and combinations but in the end used Rockmans because that was the only thing to deliver that tone...
Click to expand...

I think the deal with the Rockman tone (clean and dirty) is that it basically comes "pre-EQ'd" to sit in the mix nicely. For the high-gained tones this includes a pretty sharp low shelf so it doesn't interfere with the bass. Then crank the hell out of the mids in the 800hz to 1k range. I'm guessing this is what Cliff's Rockman preset is doing although I don't have my Axe next to me to check right now.

The EQ for the clean sounds I'm less familiar with. I'd have to get my hands on one to mess around with.

You can hear on any Mutt Lange recording that he really doesn't like the guitars interfering much with the bass frequency range. He always has a very defined frequency space for each instrument. That's probably why he liked the Rockman so much.

I think you can get there with other amps and EQ (including the Axe-FX). It just takes more work whereas the Rockman gives you that tone out of the box.
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I think you're right.

I've been trying to buy an old Rockman at an 'ok' price for some time now. If I should get one I'll definitely try to dial in the clean tone. Never gave much for the drive sounds out of it. Way toooo much mids in my opinion, but that 'plastic' character of the clean is just awesome :D
 
Bumperty bump for some Mindcrime and Rockman love. Too bad QR is not even a shadow of their former selves these days. :(

Jamming to some Mindcrime now,
Jeff
 
Still trying to work out those tones. But in the meantime, I was listening to this record again last week. What a freaking complete album. So good in every way from top to bottom. Can't think of one thing I'd change, and I don't know anybody else who'd change anything either. Was there ever any serious discussion about turning this record into a feature film? IMHO, it would make for one Hell of a movie. Funny how certain lyrics from that album still resonate and are still relevant today. Some in the same ways they were back then, and some in completely different ways. A truly remarkable album. But I'd LOVE to see the movie!
 
Jiffzillla said:
Still trying to work out those tones. But in the meantime, I was listening to this record again last week. What a freaking complete album. So good in every way from top to bottom. Can't think of one thing I'd change, and I don't know anybody else who'd change anything either. Was there ever any serious discussion about turning this record into a feature film? IMHO, it would make for one Hell of a movie. Funny how certain lyrics from that album still resonate and are still relevant today. Some in the same ways they were back then, and some in completely different ways. A truly remarkable album. But I'd LOVE to see the movie!
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Still one of my favorite Albums. I saw them on their Rage for Order tour back in the day. They were awesome. Ir's been a while since I've listened to Mindcrime.
 
javajunkie said:
Still one of my favorite Albums. I saw them on their Rage for Order tour back in the day. They were awesome. Ir's been a while since I've listened to Mindcrime.
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I would love to have caught them on tour back in the Rage days... Tate's voice was godlike back then. :cool:
 
Stringtheorist said:
javajunkie said:
Still one of my favorite Albums. I saw them on their Rage for Order tour back in the day. They were awesome. Ir's been a while since I've listened to Mindcrime.
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I would love to have caught them on tour back in the Rage days... Tate's voice was godlike back then. :cool:
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His voice is still godlike... as long as the god we are talking about is "Joe Camel". ;)

QR are not even a pale shade of their mid-to-late-80's selves. They have more in common with Lifehouse than the band that did Mindcrime. And I won't even dignify their attempt to capitalize on former glory with OM:II. Y-U-C-K.

Regs,
Jeff
 
I think Queensryche is one of the bands I've seen most times in my life and NEVER actually wanted to see :lol: . I think I saw them 4 or 5 times and it was always at big festivals or I wanted to see their support (like Lynch Mob once), they were very good in a live situation though ;)
 
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