QSC Touchmix 16 vs Behringer X32 rack

[adew]

My band (4 piece) has been tip-toeing around going IEM for some time ago (I posted a question about IEM gear a year or so back) and, after lots of head-scratching and hesitating, we've decided to go for it - especially as there seem to be some powerful and reasonably priced digital mixing gear out there now. I've seen some threads here on the FAS forums about the X32, and it seems those that have it are very happy with it, though some mentioned that the learning curve is a bit steep. I managed to get some hands-on time with a QSC Touchmix 16 this weekend, and really liked its intuitive user interface, small form factor, light weight and built-in wifi router. However, would it be a good choice for an IEM mixing solution?

As much as I like the look and feel of the Touchmix, it only has 6 aux sends whereas we would want 4 stereo IEM mixes. It is possible that our drummer will stay with stage monitors, and therefore he can live with a mono mix, but we still won't have enough sends for independent mixes. (Unless I'm missing something.)

It seems to me that the X32 can definitely do what we want (8 aux sends, I believe?). However, I'm a little put off by having to use an ipad or computer, whereas the Touchmix still has some knobs to grab. I should also mention that we want a physically small and light as possible rig.

I'd love to hear from those who have been through the same decision-making process recently, and find out what mixer you went for and why. Of course, any comments on these two pieces of kit will be especially welcome.

Thanks.

 

[dpeterson]

Recently put together an ear monitor rig. I've used the mackie, and was looking hard at the touch ix. Ended up with the x32 rack. Just had the first gig with it and it was awesome. Did two trial runs at practice with it to get familiar with it. We bought a splitter snake and it all worked like a charm. FOH guy could concentrate on making us sound good out front.

I don't care about the knobs. But the x32 rack has some knobs, can manipulate everything from the front panel, don't need an iPad. We use android and iPhones for most guys, I use an iPad mini.

Next up is encorporating FOH mains, and doing it all ourselves.

 

[Dutch]

One thing I always miss in digital mixers for monitoring purposes is a good direct out. Most places we play have not so experienced sound personnel so having them learning the iPad interface on the spot is not a good option. Just giving them a direct out so they can use the stuff they are used to is better. But splitters are more expensive than mixers nowadays and triple the size.


Presonus mixers are the only ones that have direct outs on a D-plug or something like that. Don't know how it's called. Big plus for me!

 

[adew]

But the x32 rack has some knobs, can manipulate everything from the front panel, don't need an iPad. We use android and iPhones for most guys, I use an iPad mini.

That's good to know. So if you need to make mix adjustments is it relatively easy to do it from the front panel, or do you use your phones/iPad?

 

[adew]

One thing I always miss in digital mixers for monitoring purposes is a good direct out. Most places we play have not so experienced sound personnel so having them learning the iPad interface on the spot is not a good option. Just giving them a direct out so they can use the stuff they are used to is better. But splitters are more expensive than mixers nowadays and triple the size.


Presonus mixers are the only ones that have direct outs on a D-plug or something like that. Don't know how it's called. Big plus for me!

Good point. Are you using a Presonus for IEM?

 

[KevinP]

The presonus direct outs are post pre-amp/gain, a lot different than having a split. You don't want to take a signal that has already gone through a mic-pre and send it to another boards pre's, it will end badly - been there done that. Those direct outs are meant for feeding some type of recording device without Mic pre's in it. If you are making the investment in carrying your own IEMs and board, you can pretty easily justify an inexpensive non-iso split snake, seismic makes them pretty darn cheap. We use one and have no issues, I do turn off phantom power on our board whenever we are connecting to another board, unless I am sure that board has it off. We carry a channel list and label the ends. You can get a rack mount one and leave everything in a single box (iems, snake, split, mixer, etc..) or just carry the box with 2 tails and drop it wherever you want.

One thing I always miss in digital mixers for monitoring purposes is a good direct out. Most places we play have not so experienced sound personnel so having them learning the iPad interface on the spot is not a good option. Just giving them a direct out so they can use the stuff they are used to is better. But splitters are more expensive than mixers nowadays and triple the size.


Presonus mixers are the only ones that have direct outs on a D-plug or something like that. Don't know how it's called. Big plus for me!

 

[Dutch]

Didn't say we had one. Just one feature I think would be very useful to me and the only product that has it. Only the Presonus doesn't have a built-in router, but those are cheaper than splitters. And the Presonus is a bit big for our needs. I have been thinking on this for a while and watching the new releases in digital mixers closely.

I play in an unconnected worship band. We don't have our own church, we play in several small churches that don't have their own worship team but they all do have tech teams. Getting a satisfying monitor mix is unusual. From what I see things are similar for club bands that hire a pa firm or worse: rely on whatever is available.




Seeing as how I like to hear the singers and keys as well as drums and bass (which are omnipresent), tweaking my own personal mix would be awesome.

 

[adew]

Didn't say we had one.

Ha ha! Sorry, I muse have misunderstood you. Thanks for the clarification.

 

[adew]

The presonus direct outs are post pre-amp/gain, a lot different than having a split. You don't want to take a signal that has already gone through a mic-pre and send it to another boards pre's, it will end badly - been there done that. Those direct outs are meant for feeding some type of recording device without Mic pre's in it. If you are making the investment in carrying your own IEMs and board, you can pretty easily justify an inexpensive non-iso split snake, seismic makes them pretty darn cheap. We use one and have no issues, I do turn off phantom power on our board whenever we are connecting to another board, unless I am sure that board has it off. We carry a channel list and label the ends. You can get a rack mount one and leave everything in a single box (iems, snake, split, mixer, etc..) or just carry the box with 2 tails and drop it wherever you want.

Agreed - that's what I'm assuming we will do, have a split snake to separate FOH from our mixer inputs.

Looking closer at the specs of the two units, plus googling madly, the QSC seems to be an excellent piece of kit. However, I think the X32 would be a better bet in terms of connectivity and future expansion possibilities. Still no decision, so more comments welcome, or suggestions for an alternative solution!

 

[Dutch]

The presonus direct outs are post pre-amp/gain, a lot different than having a split. You don't want to take a signal that has already gone through a mic-pre and send it to another boards pre's, it will end badly - been there done that. Those direct outs are meant for feeding some type of recording device without Mic pre's in it. If you are making the investment in carrying your own IEMs and board, you can pretty easily justify an inexpensive non-iso split snake, seismic makes them pretty darn cheap. We use one and have no issues, I do turn off phantom power on our board whenever we are connecting to another board, unless I am sure that board has it off. We carry a channel list and label the ends. You can get a rack mount one and leave everything in a single box (iems, snake, split, mixer, etc..) or just carry the box with 2 tails and drop it wherever you want.

Bummer. Aren't mic pres pretty transparent nowadays? Or we can tell the sound guys to go line-in.


I've been looking a while back for splitters. All I could find were 19" models with 8 channels for between 200 and 300 EUR. Those seismic look pretty good. Wonder if I can find something like that in Europe. Or what the shipping would be.

 

[dpeterson]

U

That's good to know. So if you need to make mix adjustments is it relatively easy to do it from the front panel, or do you use your phones/iPad?

I would use the apps, you can set each person to their sub groups so the only effect their mix. It's very easy to use. Sound last Saturday was for the first time fantastic. Really shocked how great everything sounded. We bought our own drum mics too so its totally the same from night to night. Removed all variables. One reason for drum mics besides repeatability for me is a hi hat and ride mic, basically low overheads. Most sounguys around here don't mic the hats, and we need to hear it for counts etc. the splitter snake was $199. We get our split before the sound guy gets to touch it. He could have the mains off and we could still play.

Oh and the app is still adding features. Like panning on the outs to the ear transmitters. Have to do that on the mixer. Took me a bit to figure that out.

 

[barhrecords]

When we mix monitors from the stage, we give the FOH stem mixes on subgroups vs. a split of every input.

 

[KevinP]

Bummer. Aren't mic pres pretty transparent nowadays? Or we can tell the sound guys to go line-in.

There are a number of reasons why this would over complicate. One is the multiple mic pre's, second going out line level. Third, if you did as suggested above, the sound guy would actually need to have an XLR to TRS converter for every channel you are using. They wouldn't have TRS on the snake, so it would be something they'd need at FOH and generally speaking wouldn't have. In addition, you are still passing through another pre (although somewhat different). Just think of it as going through the front end of a guitar amp, then going post-gain out (maybe through FX loop) directly into the face of another amp. It will create a lot of gain issues and ugly sounds in general. It may work out in best cases, but I would say more often than not it would end badly.

As far as advice on the systems, the Behringer (I can't believe I'm saying this!!!) seems like a better choice and I have a few friends that are using those for IEM rigs and love it. If we didn't already have an IEM board and we were buying I would definitely consider that the front runner.

HTH

Kevin

 

[dpeterson]

With the x32 just set all sends as pre fader, then route the main l r outs to any available output to FOH mains. Hand the sound guy an iPad. That's what we are going to do next. Love no wedges, no feedback issues, sounds perfect. Trying to attach a photo...

 

[KevinP]

With the x32 just set all sends as pre fader, then route the main l r outs to any available output to FOH mains. Hand the sound guy an iPad. That's what we are going to do next. Love no wedges, no feedback issues, sounds perfect. Trying to attach a photo...

That is a cool idea, but if he adjusts the channel strip EQ or compressor he could change your mix significantly (even when pre-fader). That idea scares me personally, not to mention if he were to adjust the gain.

 

[BBN]

x-rack.....no brainer.
i played with the qsc touchmix at namm, and i was shocked at how bad the latency is with their touch screen.
it ranked as the last digital mixer i would buy....for a lot of reasons....if you wnt to hear them, let me know.
my x-rack with an ipad has better latency/response.
the x-rack also has way more versatility and flexibility.

 

[chris]

That is a cool idea, but if he adjusts the channel strip EQ or compressor he could change your mix significantly (even when pre-fader). That idea scares me personally, not to mention if he were to adjust the gain.

If you only have 16 or less inputs, just use 1-16 for FOH and then assign the same inputs to 17-32 and use those for your in ear sends.

EQ both sets separately. Don't use the "main" faders for your in ear set, just use the Bus Sends (other mixers call these "Aux" or "Monitor" sends).

Oh and the app is still adding features. Like panning on the outs to the ear transmitters. Have to do that on the mixer. Took me a bit to figure that out.

That feature IS available on the iPhone version of the app, Q-Mix or whatever. Just tap the Pan icons above the faders and it drops down.

Strangely not in the full iPad mix app, but it doesn't seem like there is room for it to display.

On my main iPad, I just have both apps and I open the iPhone App if I need to adjust IEM panning. But I haven't really changed any of that for about 3 months now, just basic levels if someone's gain staging has changed.

In ear monitors have been amazing for me and I love them! I can hear everything exactly how I want and it helps me perform so much better.

 

[Keg8605]

I vote for the x32 as well. You may want to consider the x32 producer version since it has more physical controls and is laid out as a mixer in case you are having some connection issues or anything. We upgraded our in ear rig and absolutely love it. Being able to do a sound check and then playit back silently to adjust our in ear mixes is awesome!

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[KevinP]

If you only have 16 or less inputs, just use 1-16 for FOH and then assign the same inputs to 17-32 and use those for your in ear sends.

EQ and gain stage both sets separately. Don't use the "main" faders for your in ear set, just use the Bus Sends (other mixers call these "Aux" or "Monitor" sends).

So you can mirror inputs and they will use separate gain? That's a pretty cool feature, with that you may not need a split. If you were sharing the same strip the EQ and compressor would impact the send even if set to pre-fader.

 

[chris]

So you can mirror inputs and they will use separate gain? That's a pretty cool feature, with that you may not need a split. If you were sharing the same strip the EQ and compressor would impact the send even if set to pre-fader.

ooh i may have misspoken and i'll edit my previous post.

i think the "main" gain/head amp is per physical input. from there, you can Gain Split, which gives each channel it's own trim/secondary gain knob. but the physical preamp gain is set only once.

that really shouldn't be too much of a problem. on the x32, i gain stage everything at around -18 or -12 dB nominal (with 0 dB as the max which is clipping). you do want that much headroom for added channel EQ and peaks.

so gain stage your inputs with a ton of head room, and then have your FOH guy just adjust using the Faders, ask him to not touch the Gain knob, since it will affect your monitor mixes. or do the gain split thing and let him think he is adjusting the gain - he will get more signal if he needs it.

you just don't want that initial preamp gain to clip, ever.

but from there, yes, separate channels, separate EQ, compression, gates, etc., basically all the Channel controls will be separate.

i personally don't trust the typical "sound guy" here with an iPad. so i use 1 ART S8 splitter to send our 8 inputs (and 1 line directly from my axe) to their PA system, and they can do whatever they want.

if there is no soundguy and i'm responsible for the FOH, i don't use the splitter and just send our main mix to their system and mix it myself from the iPad.