QSC K series opinions?

G

Gasp100

Power User
Anyone do a shootout between the QSC K series (the K10 in particular) - FbT Verve 8 or 12ma - Atomic FR?
I really like the form factor, weight and size of the QSC K10. I also like the fact they are available at most large music stores, they have a long warranty and I could use gift certs (and future sales from Musician's Friend / GC) to bring down the overall cost.
The FBT Verves are hard to find around (especially used) and the Atomic FR's are back to wait list again. Plus, they are at least another $100-200 more than the K10's.
Let's hear it!
 
Gasp100 said:
Anyone do a shootout between the QSC K series (the K10 in particular) - FbT Verve 8 or 12ma - Atomic FR?
I really like the form factor, weight and size of the QSC K10. I also like the fact they are available at most large music stores, they have a long warranty and I could use gift certs (and future sales from Musician's Friend / GC) to bring down the overall cost.
The FBT Verves are hard to find around (especially used) and the Atomic FR's are back to wait list again. Plus, they are at least another $100-200 more than the K10's.
Let's hear it!
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I'd love to hear a QSC K10 vs Verve comparison too. Price and availability make the K series a little more attractive to me but I don't know how they stack up against the FBT's.
 
I have tried everyone of the k series and in a head to head comparison, I found that the k series in general had an upper midrange harshness to them that I could put up with. The same preset sound much more natural and pleasant, some of which I translated to sounding more like a guitar amp in the verve both the 12 and the 8. In the end, I kept both the 12ma and 8ma and passed on the k series. They offer plenty of power and have some nice options, but in the end it was the more natural sounding verve that I went with. Your ears may tell you different, but I tried the 8, the 10 and the 12, all the k series suffered this same upper midrange harshness. I know others have tried them and like what they hear. It is possible that you could eq that out, but taking a preset that I created for recording, and using that as my basis, the verve's won. YMMV
 
ckofahl said:
"In the end, I kept both the 12ma and 8ma and passed on the k series".
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Interesting that you would keep both the 12ma and the 8ma. I'm considering the 12ma but wonder whether it would be overkill for my needs ... mostly bedroom playing and small jams with friends. How would you compare the 8ma to the 12ma sonically ( forgetting about size, weight, cost differences ). Do you think the 8's have any advantages over the 12's when you're playing at non-gig volumes? I think Scott Peterson has high praise for the 8ma but was also impressed by the 12ma.

Any inputs from anyone with experience with the 8ma and 12ma would be appreciated.

Thanks ..
 
The 12ma in my opinion is slightly warmer (more guitarish) sounding in the midrange. Not enough so to make me want to not have 8ma. I like the 8ma for small gigs and it's great for home playing. Sonically it is very pleasing and has no lack of bottom end. For an 8in speaker, it will surprise you with how it handles the low end. I could live with out the 12ma, but fortunately I don't have to, but for portability, small jams, small stages it's my go to!
 
Thanks much ckofahl. One last question, do you think the 12ma's would be too much for just playing at home or for small jams with friends? I worry about having to crank the 12ma's up to too high a volume level in order for them to shine. How do they sound to you at roughly the same relatively low volume level that you would play the 8ma's at at home?

All inputs welcome .. thanks ...
 
quark said:
Thanks much ckofahl. One last question, do you think the 12ma's would be too much for just playing at home or for small jams with friends? I worry about having to crank the 12ma's up to too high a volume level in order for them to shine. How do they sound to you at roughly the same relatively low volume level that you would play the 8ma's at at home?

All inputs welcome .. thanks ...
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I would spring for the 12mA, it's always better to have too much than not enough and the footprint and weight arn't much more. I would bet money you will set better in the mix with your buddies. Also it's not like a guitar amp where you need to crank it to bring the goods. Think of it like your stereo at lower volume, add a little bass to compensate for the lack of volume and your fine. Just remember to take it out when you do turn it up or it will be over bearing.
 
Needing to turn them up to "get them to shine" so to speak, really doesn't apply in my experience with FRFR systems. Obviously the more you turn them up there are certain things about cabinet design and various things that I don't fully understand come into play, but at low volumes the 12 ma sounds good and so does the 8ma. the thing is the 8ma is that sound wise it's not so different but it's ability to cover a given space is limited by it's size. The only downside to having the 12ma over the 8ma is the extra weight of 12ma. You can't beat the portability of the 8ma. as I said, my experience was that the 12ma is a bit more natural sounding for guitar, and that may be because of 12in speaker vs 8in.
 
Sixstring said:
Also it's not like a guitar amp where you need to crank it to bring the goods. Think of it like your stereo at lower volume, add a little bass to compensate for the lack of volume and your fine. Just remember to take it out when you do turn it up or it will be over bearing.
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Really good point and one that I hadn't thought about ... thanks for both responses on FRFR volume ... you both seem to agree.
 
I have not compared the K10 to the 12MA, but I did have a K12 and 12MA side by side. I choose the K12, mostly for the better warranty. Both sounded very good to me. I did not gig with both, just set them up literally side by side in my home studio and plugged in.

However, I do gig with either a pair of K12s or a pair of K10s, and the K10s are very capable of keeping up with a loud band (two drummers) on a small stage. For larger or outdoor stages, I tend to take the K12s, but neither is likely to run out of power on you. Typically, I put one down by my vocal wedge, facing me, and the second behind me on a crate. It creates a nice field of perfectly audible guitar sound, and I've never heard myself better on stage. I used to run a 2X12 cabinet and add some fill in the vocal monitor before. This is miles ahead of that.

Just a comment about the "which sounds better" dialogue ... as someone who uses gear at home but also gigs regularly with it, it should be no surprise to anyone that whatever you are playing through -- FR or a "real" guitar amp -- never sounds the same way on twice on a different stage. To me, it became about being satisfied with the tone I hear back on the soundboard recordings (we multitrack every show) and having that be perfectly consistent show to show, which it is. At that point, I feel I can trust what I'm hearing off my stage monitors, as long as it's loud enough to hear. If it's not as bright as I want, or the low end is lacking a little on a given night, I just don't worry about it, because I know what's coming out to FOH is correct. It's miles away from worrying about whether or not the "real" amp sounds "right" in its setting, because that's miked and going to FOH wrong if it doesn't.

So, while there are some subtle differences between the 12MA and the K Series, either one can be adjusted to sound "right" for you. My tone is perfectly consistent on any stage, and in my home studio, at any volume. The fact that the QSC has a 6-year warranty and extensive service network in the US, as well as being manufactured here, was a big plus to me over the Verve stuff.

To sum up, I think if you're gigging regularly, either will work fine, but the warranty and availability of the QSC wins out. The K also is a bit louder, in my experience. If you're setting it up in your living room permanently, then you should pay more attention to listening to each.
 
Wow, excellent detailed responses... you guys rule!
Like I said in my personal experiences I preferred the Atomic FR, but in hindsight I would most likely get one of those tilt back / floor stands to make it a pseudo wedge.
The 8ma has received a LOT of rave reviews from many people (not just Scott P) as a perfect home/lower volume solution vs. the 12ma. I guess because I'm home only (for at least the forseeable future) sans a few get together jams and such, the 8ma needs to be considered as a contender. I "should" hold up for any home use and possibly small jams (some without a drummer involved), etc... I would hope in this day and age if I started gigging out again running EVERYTHING into FOH would be a strong possibility (or I would make it such :) so that the 8ma could still be a personal monitor and I wouldn't have to have something like the 12ma become a backline... but, it's a tough call. If I remember correctly I NEVER turned the Atomic FR past 12 o'clock on the volume at home (even when I could open it up and crush without the family around) and the Verve 12ma was probably even lower at the volume control that that... LOUD when it's only you playing. So, in very case volume is a non-issue but depth, dispersion and speaker size is... still sounds like the 8ma can give up enough of the goods at home for sure (I don't do chugga, chugga).
I agree with the one poster about the QSC positives and if I search long enough I might even be able to sneak out to a dealer with AxeFX under my arm to give one a whirl... that is a HUGE plus.
More than likely I'm going to sign up for waitlist #2 on the Atomic. Within that time frame I could sell off some gear/save up and test out the QSC K's and/or keep an eye open for used Verve stuff... if nothing happens I'll be ready once the Atomic FR's ship again.
Let's keep this discussion going! I know I'm not the only one looking for opinions on the main FRFR "solutions" for the AxeFX.
 
I'm in a similar situation as you.... Except I have the Verve 8ma already. I play mainly at home and in a worship setting with electronic drums. The 8ma is perfect for what I need right now. But I'm gearing up to do some regular playing with acoustic drums and would like to get something with a 12" speaker.

Ideally, I'd like one solution that meets both settings. I have been considering moving to the K10, K12, the 12ma, or the Atomic. Each solution has potential shortcomings.... The traditional guitar amp form of the Atomic will not work out as well for me in the worship setting as a wedge shaped monitor. So that leads me to either the K10, K12, or the 12ma as something that could work for both settings. My concern with the K12/12ma is that it will be too big for home use and in worship, which leads me to the K10 as an intermediate sized solution. The concern with the K10 is whether it will actually sound "bigger" than the 8ma which is very impressive for it's size. Also, the mixed reviews on the K series "harshness" is of some concern.

I think the ideal situation would be to keep the 8ma and add the Atomic or the 12ma. But I really don't want to invest in two setups. So, the debate continues.... But the comments comparing the 8ma to the 12ma were very interesting. It looks like the 12ma might be a good solution for both situations.

Or I could just pick up an Atomic and keep the 8ma.... Analysis paralysis has set in....
 
I saved up and bought a pair of Atomic FRs and really, really love the tone. Compared to my old QSC HPR 12s, they have a little less headroom. After playing the Atomic FRs for a few weeks, I stumbled across the QSC K10s and was blown away at how portable, powerful, and toneful they were. I bought a pair with the intent of selling my Atomics. Then I made the mistake of sitting a K10 on top of each Atomic and running them together. BLISS!!!! I really do need to sell one of these sets, but the wall of sound I'm getting with all four is mind-boggling. I run the Atomics at full volume and the K10s at about 35-40% volume. Also, the entire rig is still amazingly portable. I can take just the K10s or Atomics to smaller gigs, too. I'm broke, but happy.
 
Well i was weighing in on which active monitors to get sometime this year, and was considering the atomic reactor fr, but you got me wondering if the k10's might be a better choice. Plus im not really to enthusiastic about getting back into the tube amp game just yet.
 
The K10 is a potent little thing, isn't it? But I'm surprised it's that much louder than the Atomic.

The K10 is 1000 watts, but that's misleading; it's 500 watts to the woofer and 500 to the tweeter, which is total overkill on that side, but as I understand it, it was more cost effective to put two identical amps in there.

And, of course, there's a world of difference between 500 Class D solid state watts and 50 tube watts. My 40 watt Vibrolux is loud as hell.

You can judge PA speakers by their decibel outputs; the K10 is 129 db at 1 meter. I'm curious what the Atomic does.
 
toadcaller said:
I saved up and bought a pair of Atomic FRs and really, really love the tone. Compared to my old QSC HPR 12s, they have a little less headroom. After playing the Atomic FRs for a few weeks, I stumbled across the QSC K10s and was blown away at how portable, powerful, and toneful they were. I bought a pair with the intent of selling my Atomics. Then I made the mistake of sitting a K10 on top of each Atomic and running them together. BLISS!!!! I really do need to sell one of these sets, but the wall of sound I'm getting with all four is mind-boggling. I run the Atomics at full volume and the K10s at about 35-40% volume. Also, the entire rig is still amazingly portable. I can take just the K10s or Atomics to smaller gigs, too. I'm broke, but happy.
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A lot of K10 testers complain about harsh midrange. And a lot of Atomic owners say the midrange is what makes it work so well with the Axe. Since you own both, what's your take on this? How do you compare the tone when plugging into one K10 compared to one Atomic?
 
ethomas1013 said:
A lot of K10 testers complain about harsh midrange. And a lot of Atomic owners say the midrange is what makes it work so well with the Axe. Since you own both, what's your take on this? How do you compare the tone when plugging into one K10 compared to one Atomic?
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I think the Atomics have a minute touch of deepness to them that you can't dial in or out with EQ on the K10s, but I can get pretty close. I don't have problems with harsh midrange on my K10s, though I did when I first plugged them in and was able to tame them with global EQ. Hot humbuckers seem to add to the problem. I have no issue playing out with just the K10s, but the FR/K10 "stack" is just a good thing made better. My only issue with the Axe-Fx is when you dial in a bad tone, it is bad (compared to a slightly maladjusted traditional amp). However, you can't beat the jaw-dropping responses you get when your set-up works. With power comes responsibility. I'll take it!
 
toadcaller said:
ethomas1013 said:
A lot of K10 testers complain about harsh midrange. And a lot of Atomic owners say the midrange is what makes it work so well with the Axe. Since you own both, what's your take on this? How do you compare the tone when plugging into one K10 compared to one Atomic?
Click to expand...
I think the Atomics have a minute touch of deepness to them that you can't dial in or out with EQ on the K10s, but I can get pretty close. I don't have problems with harsh midrange on my K10s, though I did when I first plugged them in and was able to tame them with global EQ. Hot humbuckers seem to add to the problem. I have no issue playing out with just the K10s, but the FR/K10 "stack" is just a good thing made better. My only issue with the Axe-Fx is when you dial in a bad tone, it is bad (compared to a slightly maladjusted traditional amp). However, you can't beat the jaw-dropping responses you get when your set-up works. With power comes responsibility. I'll take it!
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Wow, this is fantastic! You have both, that is really cool. I have to be honest, the K10's are starting to sound really good to me (in my current position). I really need to find a local place that carries them and bring the AxeFX with me if possible for testing. If the "harsh" midrange can be dialed out using a mix of Global EQ and possibly PEQ per patch (I figured out how to copy/paste FX from one patch to another seamlessly with the new editor) that would be awesome. Quite frankly, as long as it sounds decent (which I believe it sounds like it does) I might be sold. I already know I don't need two (for stereo) with my patches and I think the form factor, accessibility, weight and positive reviews (overall) have won me over. We shall see.
 
Gasp100 said:
Wow, this is fantastic! You have both, that is really cool. I have to be honest, the K10's are starting to sound really good to me (in my current position). I really need to find a local place that carries them and bring the AxeFX with me if possible for testing. If the "harsh" midrange can be dialed out using a mix of Global EQ and possibly PEQ per patch (I figured out how to copy/paste FX from one patch to another seamlessly with the new editor) that would be awesome. Quite frankly, as long as it sounds decent (which I believe it sounds like it does) I might be sold. I already know I don't need two (for stereo) with my patches and I think the form factor, accessibility, weight and positive reviews (overall) have won me over. We shall see.
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Definitely try it out at a store. I have a few guitars, and there are two in particular that I play constantly with the Axe-Fx/K10s because they sound great. One is an Ernie Ball Music Man "Luke" (neck EMG on the SRV patch is a blast), and the other is a Gibson Tom Murphy Les Paul from '02 (not-so-high-output humbuckers). They seem like pretty different animals, but for some reason they really work well with this rig. Enjoy!
 
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