Presets to nail the sound in the songs of my 80's Hair Metal / Hard Rock cover band (

luke said:
That's really the issue. The bassist and drummer are not changing tones, they will likely have a middle of the road tone to suit all scenarios.

It is not only the volume you must concern yourself with, but the perception of volume. For scooped tones you will have to be louder, for mid and treble friendly tones you will have to reduce your volume as to not jump out so much as it seems as though you are the only one on stage.

As I've said many times previously, the best practice is to record your band in such a way you can be removed from the track and you can then adjust yourself and your presets at your leisure.
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In my current band the Bass player also uses multiple guitars and effects that the song calls for. GNR'S you could be mine sounds nothing like Hearts Barracuda, or Iron Maidens The Trooper, or AiC's Man in the Box, or Tool's Sober.

As for drums, it's more about the style than the drums for 90% of it and our drummer has roots in everything so he is very versatile as well.

At the end of the day though, you get out what you put in, but everyone's gig/show/direction is different, and ultimately this is what makes the Axe FX II such a great piece of gear as it can accommodate us all.
 
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I played in a similar type of band and I used to research what amps the guitar players used and I helped, but not all the time.
As other people stated the Friedman nails many of the tones, but I used the BE the most, but I also used the Brit Brown, Brit Plexi 50 watt, Mk 2C.
I also used the PEQ block or the Graphic Eq block in front of the amp to get more mids by boosting 500 Hz, 800 Hz and 1 kHz and it helped a lot in nailing many of the tones. The Friedman BE works great as the basic building block of the tone. I also use the Filter block to boost the amps that needed some help like the Brit Plexi 50 and for solos I used the Drive block, except for VH tunes or Scorpions since they don't use distortion pedals.
In those days using an Eventide Harmonizer to get the doubler tone was used quite a bit, but you need to be careful not to over use it because if you're running your Axe Fx in mono, it will sound to wet, so perhaps 20% might be enough. You can hear the doubler effect in the guitar with Dokken, Whitesnake,etc
 
don't overlook the Dirty Shirley....hit the bright switch and open up the presence...it kills!

as for the different tone for each song vs a few general tones....i see both sides, and think both are valid. I think it depends most on what your band is going for. Are you a hardcore cover band that's trying to cop every nuance of a particular song/genre/era? Dial in every tone. Are you playing a bunch of different songs and throwing some in for fun, to fill out that niche in your set, you can get by with generalized tones.
 
Severed said:
GNR'S you could be mine sounds nothing like Hearts Barracuda, or Iron Maidens The Trooper, or AiC's Man in the Box, or Tool's Sober.
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Sure, you don't want those tones to be exactly the same for each of those songs. But I bet as long as you get the gain structure and pickup selection in the ballpark, and you hit any signature effects, you can cover whole sets of material like this nicely with just a handful of patches. Someone mentioned 200 song specific patches...jeez...that's admirable and all but who has time to manage that what with learning songs, practicing, rehearsing, gigging, sleeping, eating... ? :)
 
randombastage said:
I understand the whole genre can be covered by a good amp that represents the era but why not nail the tones instead of playing the whole show as if the AxeFx is just a Splawn or a Friedman. That is one of the great things about the AxeFx...it can do better than a reasonable approximation, in most cases it can nail the song. If you are going to be a bear, be a grizzly...if you are in a cover band 'cover it'.
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That's the point, I have several "basic tones" in my Kemper, that's the way I used to play, but there are wonderful presets that nails some songs, so is funny to come out with that "nailed" presets that reminds you strongly the original tune.
 
With as much tweaking I do I couldn't imagine trying to keep up with 200 presets! Seems like just trying to level match would be a nightmare.
 
I have 4-6 basic parameter sets that I use for most songs. They are essentially Fender Clean (Deluxe Tweed), Marshall Clean (JTM-45 dialed in for light crunch if I really spank the guitar with the volume turned full up), Rock Crunch (Buttery Model), Marshall Crunch/Lead (1987X Treble), Atmospheric clean (Stock Ambient Guitar preset with a cab change.) I also have a couple of mid gain presets that I use with the Roamer model and one based off of I believe Tyler Grund preset that mixes a Vibro Verb clean with a pissed off Super Verb.

For songs that require 'stunt presets' I'll whip up a specific set to go with these songs. The cover band that I'm in covers a lot of female pop songs due to having a rotation of 3 female singers.

Examples of songs that have specific presets include "One and Only" by Adele, I use my EHX HOG2 and the rotary block to cover the organ parts. "Try" by Pink needed two amp blocks, a Deluxe Tweed to cover the clean atmospheric parts in the verses and a Wrecker 2 for the power chords in the chorus. "Stompa" by Serena Ryder uses the HOG2 again to cover the cello on the intro and I was originally using a Euro Blue Mdrn for the crunchy parts but have since switched it to a CA Tucana 3. I can probably get away with the synth block in the Axe to cover the cello bit but the Hog is there and easy so I stick with it.
 
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If it's leaning more toward a Tribute band, then really getting the presets like the record would be cool.

If it's just a cover band, for me, I have the meat and potatoes Clean Fender, Clean Vox, Crunch Marshall, Saturated Marshall. I also like either a no-amp preset for chorus, ultra-clean chorus or the JC120 clean for chorus.

For what I've tried there are too many variables to the record mix to allow the guitar to be the only instrument off the record. It never turns out big enough. All the other live instruments make an exact off the record guitar sound small live to me.

The EQ for live is very different. Usually a little darker / warmer and more low mid energy live.
 
A a couple of jacked up Marshall presets with delay and modulation FX and JC120ish clean with a chorus gets you 85% or more of 80s Hair Metal. LOL. Some tunes have very recognizable FX, very few, IMHO, have super distinct amp distortion that is going to be noticed in a live setting. My strategy in an 80s cover band would be along the lines of Karl's suggestion: 4 or so base presets and then decide on a tune by tune basis if they are going to be unique enough to warrant a dial in and like I said, I'm guessing almost 9 times out of 10 it wouldn't be warranted (so to speak).

To some degree, again IMHO, the point of covering is to add your own spin or interpretation of something. As other have noted, a *tribute* band might merit much more pedantic dialing.
 
I have CDO (same as OCD but in alphabetical order). I have presets for every song we do in both a tribute act and a cover band. We use a click. I like to to have my delays and rates synced up and my tones as close as possible. I think I have something like 84 presets. Did I ever mention I hate major firmware updates?
 
bdrepko said:
With as much tweaking I do I couldn't imagine trying to keep up with 200 presets! Seems like just trying to level match would be a nightmare.
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It's worth mentioning that this is the reason I have not updated since fw14. 13 to 14 didn't change the tone much so realistically most of the presets I made on 13 required little to no reworking with 14. 15 however wrecked them all.

Anyways, most presets I have put in a couple hours of time on with some tricky ones taking way longer, but once it's done, it's done, and obviously many new ones I can base off of one's I already made, but effects and EQ get treated.

Finally I should mention I do a tone match and then blend that with a live tone to get a workable live tone, then dial it in to my bands mix from a recorded and mixed multitrack of a band rehearsal.

This removes the need for a "sound guy" completely when we gig as the mix is always perfect for every scene of every preset.

Yes it was and is a lot of work, but I want to do it this way and have nothing but praise from everyone so it's working for me and my current band.
 
Severed said:
It's worth mentioning that this is the reason I have not updated since fw14. 13 to 14 didn't change the tone much so realistically most of the presets I made on 13 required little to no reworking with 14. 15 however wrecked them all.
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Vindicated my previous comment about old patches not sounding the same with Firmware 15.07 upgrade. Not sure what posts #4 & #5 are talking about.
 
JT2 said:
Vindicated my previous comment about old patches not sounding the same with Firmware 15.07 upgrade. Not sure what posts #4 & #5 are talking about.
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When there are major changes to the amp block, change to how it sounds/reacts/feels is unavoidable. Add in the combination of new Ultra Res IR's and it changes more. Add in small changes to how effects react and again it adds to the flavor especially if one uses a lot of effects that are also finely tuned.

I am also a "mod" guy in that I use 3 expression pedals to control many different things from input gain to preamp gain to effect levels to trem speed or rotary, and the list goes on and on, and again are also on a "per preset" level. Some presets need a momentary switch for holding a delay to let a power chord ring out while I start a solo or break into a clean riff. I am also using many custom harmonies for a lot of songs, using expression pedal to change intervals for example. I also do all the synth stuff that would otherwise require us to hire a keys player.

I am just one of those guys that has this black box and I try to use it to it's full potential as much as possible, it's a lot of work, but it's also quite rewarding and exciting, and also helps greatly to expand my knowledge of how all this stuff works and works together and how all these coveted tones were created and recorded in the first place.
 
Severed said:
When there are major changes to the amp block, change to how it sounds/reacts/feels is unavoidable. Add in the combination of new Ultra Res IR's and it changes more. Add in small changes to how effects react and again it adds to the flavor especially if one uses a lot of effects that are also finely tuned.

I am also a "mod" guy in that I use 3 expression pedals to control many different things from input gain to preamp gain to effect levels to trem speed or rotary, and the list goes on and on, and again are also on a "per preset" level. Some presets need a momentary switch for holding a delay to let a power chord ring out while I start a solo or break into a clean riff. I am also using many custom harmonies for a lot of songs, using expression pedal to change intervals for example. I also do all the synth stuff that would otherwise require us to hire a keys player.

I am just one of those guys that has this black box and I try to use it to it's full potential as much as possible, it's a lot of work, but it's also quite rewarding and exciting, and also helps greatly to expand my knowledge of how all this stuff works and works together and how all these coveted tones were created and recorded in the first place.
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It's time consuming but worth it. The updates are killer. Like owning the amp. But like I said, patches from V 10 won't sound the same with V 15.07. Once you up date the amp it's tweak time. Posts #4 & #5 are mistaken. Unless you roll back the firmware. But then you don't have the advancements this magic machine provides.

As far as Tribute bands. You've got to nail the song, Period. Tones, inflections and dynamics. I was in a 'FOREIGNER' Tribute band and we worked hard to nail it. We did and they loved us in NYC. That's all the Kudos we needed.
 
Severed said:
I play all the same material. 6 different guitars, 4 different tunings, over 200 song specific presets that sound like the real thing.

I laugh at these comments of pissing people off with too much change. In fact I get nothing but praise how great and how close every tone sounds to the original every time we play. If there is a guy running sound it's nothing short of compliments all night long.

If one puts the time in......
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I'm with you. I've been in a bunch of cover bands over the years and always put the time in to nail the tones and play note for note. It really pays off. People love it and it's very rewarding. Rounds out your chops too.
 
the thing is, there's a difference between being a cover band and a band that plays covers sometimes/does occasional cover gigs.
 
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