Preset Volume Matching

serge20261

Inspired
This has probably been discussed before,I absolutely love the tones I'm getting out of the Axe,the most frustrating thing I encounter when playing live is the volume level between presets.I play in a covers band,the tones vary from ultra clean to heavily overdriven and everything in between.
So I'm asking,how you guys are managing your Volumes,what's a good db increase for solo etc,I usually increase 4db some patches cool others it frightens the crap out of me and the audience.
 
I use a db meter on my phone, It makes it easier & faster when toggling between presets. The VU is a good tool, but it would help if the VU had a peak hold setting.
But it's not about the peak, it's about the average.
 
Great video Chris!

The VU meter method is a great start. BUT there many other factors in play here. The acoustics of the venue is one; your volume levels may sound perfect at one gig but the next gig it might sound totally different because of this. This goes especially for wah and also for drive sounds. The seconds factor is the sound in the mix of the band. When dialing these volume levels at home it may sound perfect but they can be totally screwed up when you use them in a band situation. So all this makes it very hard and complicated to match your levels. Especially since it is hard and impractical to dial it in on the fly and quickly adjust things. No meter can tell you this so better to rely on your ears. This goes for all multi effect processors and/or modellers. This is much easier with real pedals and amps.

So here are my suggestions to deal with this.
1) Keep your presets as simple as possible.
2) Don't use too many different presets. This makes it a PITA to match volumes live.
3) Don't use too many different amp or cab models. Each amp has it's own sound and frequencies. Keeping it with just a few amps makes it much easier. You don't bring six amps to a gig if you used real amps anyway.
4) Construct the presets like a real pedal board. In just one preset you can already do a lot. So in most cases you will only have switch the effects on (or scenes if you prefer). This way you don't have to switch to another preset all the time.
5) Be especially careful with the wah block or any other blocks that use extreme filters. And also the synth block.
 
I use the VU meter. It's based on loudness.
My method is to press Utility>Page Right 3 times>strum open 6 strings at about 2/3rds the power of your capability and use the A or B knob to adjust the volume until it's a smidgen above the line on the meter.
From there you should have enough headroom to avoid clipping when chugging or doing something wild.
 
Last edited:
Great video Chris!

The VU meter method is a great start. BUT there many other factors in play here. The acoustics of the venue is one; your volume levels may sound perfect at one gig but the next gig it might sound totally different because of this. This goes especially for wah and also for drive sounds. The seconds factor is the sound in the mix of the band. When dialing these volume levels at home it may sound perfect but they can be totally screwed up when you use them in a band situation. So all this makes it very hard and complicated to match your levels. Especially since it is hard and impractical to dial it in on the fly and quickly adjust things. No meter can tell you this so better to rely on your ears. This goes for all multi effect processors and/or modellers. This is much easier with real pedals and amps.

So here are my suggestions to deal with this.
1) Keep your presets as simple as possible.
2) Don't use too many different presets. This makes it a PITA to match volumes live.
3) Don't use too many different amp or cab models. Each amp has it's own sound and frequencies. Keeping it with just a few amps makes it much easier. You don't bring six amps to a gig if you used real amps anyway.
4) Construct the presets like a real pedal board. In just one preset you can already do a lot. So in most cases you will only have switch the effects on (or scenes if you prefer). This way you don't have to switch to another preset all the time.
5) Be especially careful with the wah block or any other blocks that use extreme filters. And also the synth block.
This is actually very smart, intelligent and practical advice.
But where's the fun in that approach......:)
 
Use the Axe meters to average your presets. Gain stage the Axe into your set with the volume control. Get a Boss FS-6 two button footswitch and set it to where one button decreases the preset and one button increases it. Play your songs and +/- to taste. Utilizing this method bypasses the need to 'save' preset. Does it automatically. Leave this system set up for a few rehearsals and you will be about as fine tuned as it gets providing all else stable.
 
I recommend starting with your cleanest preset.

Get the VU meter averaging zero with a big hard open chord strum. Note the VU, the loudness meter, is the horizontal meter. It measures apparent loudness not level.

Let your speaker / PA do the heavy lifting. If you need louder output, crank the speaker or PA. Leave headroom in your preset and don't use up the headroom to get louder.

Consider using an EQ post amp and cab to boost your level vs. just a dB boost. I like the GEQ 5 band passive for this. It sounds very musical. Make a "frowny" curve to boost the mids. You may find you need no level increase at all. Just a mid boost to ride over the top of the mix.

Make sure with your boost on that you are not clipping.

Once you have the cleanest preset done; use that as your reference for everything else. With all your boosts off, repeat getting the next preset the same as your reference. I do this by ear by adjusting the amp block level parameter and switching back and forth to my reference preset. Keep a close eye on clipping as you dial in the other presets.

Once I get them all matched to the reference, then I go back check the boost on each one. Usually the same GEQ trick will work for everything.

A frequency specific boost like a GEQ will let you cut the mix with less effort than boosting dB only. Especially if some of your presets are scooped. You have to really crank a scooped tone to ride over a mix.
 
I've gone through a few approaches trying to deal with this. Here is my current method:
- use VU meter on AxeFX to get close when switching between scenes
- last block in my chain is a PEQ tied to foot controller for -12dB to +0dB gain.

I used to have a "lead" button with 4dB boost but I found this inadequate to manage the variations.


If you are a tight band with a specific rehearsed show then I can see dialing everything down to within a few dB. But if you are a weekend warrior cover band doing a variety of songs, and a loose arrangement with different dynamics each time, then the +4dB IA switch doesn't work. I found that when the whole group got louder, I would kick on that button too early to get my sound up then have nowhere to go up from there.

I tried for a while to have separate scenes for finger picking vs strumming, to account for the different boost needs. I still might go back to this but I'm abandoning it for now because I got a better guitar with more touch-responsive dynamics and I use it to control clean or crunch playing more now, so less need to switch scenes for that.

So my approach now is to dial as close to equal as I can using similar dynamics across all scenes/patches. Then playing live I put the volume pedal about middle position or a little less, set the Main output knobs on AxeFX to desired loudness, and use my foot to fine tune the mix the rest of the night.

This works because I'm not sending to FOH, just using my monitor like a back line and the whole band is physically close together in small bars. It also works because I'm not one of those players that expects to be louder than everything else.
 
I found that when the whole group got louder, I would kick on that button too early to get my sound up then have nowhere to go up from there.
If the whole band is getting louder, I would just turn up my overall output volume, not the bump I reserved for a lead over that "normal" volume. Your method works of course, but that is a lot of reserved volume on the preset side of things. Have you tried increasing the front panel out knob during the gig? Just curious how you got to the 12 dB range idea vs turning up.
 
I made a video, where I use an LUFS meter in my DAW rather than the VU meter. I think, it is faster and more accurate

 
@Smittefar I compared the VU to the Waves Loudness meter plug when the VU was first implemented and the VU held its own then and was just as accurate as the Waves meter.

I haven't done any DAW comparisons since.

@ianx It's not even about the average, its about the apparent loudness, IOW energy.
 
To me the difference is mostly in the integrated value. You play 10 seconds, you get a value, say -15.3 dB, and if your target was -18 dB, you just adjust adjust by 2.7 dB - done deal. With the VU meters, it is a bit of a judgement call to get the right adjustment.
 
With respect Smittefar your example exposes the flaw in using LUFS as the final say in preset levels. It is an awesome way to get ballpark levels but in reality clean rhythms will produce a lower LUFS number (louder) than your distorted tone to ear perception. If you were to play that clean guitar you example then break into a lead at the level you example in your distorted setting, the bottom would fall out and your lead will be very weak.

I utilize the same Melda you use to level back tracks from one song to the next and I consistently find that acoustic numbers, with a great deal of dynamics and fewer instruments will wind up being much louder than a rock guitar type track when going head to head with a single LUFS value in spite of the LUFS values being the same. Exactly the opposite of what you would think.

You could probably get better results utilizing 2 target LUFS values, for ex:, -18 LUFS for dynamic cleans and -15 LUFS for crunch and distorted. Even this would not account if you are actually wanting that crunch/distorted tone as a lead boost solo type tone. So it would not be unusual to have to establish even a 3rd target.
 
Last edited:
I've found the exact same thing as MWD (maybe it's a NM thing). I have to have my cleans lower on the meter than my distorted tones.
I've found that many sound people are pretty dang cool and helpful. I made a spread sheet that I printed out and gave to the soundman (they're all men in my neck of the woods). All he had to do was put a check in the good volume, too quiet or too loud box. I also had a "sounds like crap" box...I can't remember what I really called it. Of course when I gave it to them I asked politely and let them know if they didn't have the time, I completely understood. I then tipped them at the end of the night. What we perceive on stage and what the FOH hears can be VERY different.
 
Back
Top Bottom