Preset Switching Latency

666was999 said:
Since the basic switching speed of the presets is extremly fast (and I don't believe anyone would complain about a gap) all humps and bumps come from things that get sent after the program change command, mainly CC-commands that switch something like X/Y, drives, eqs and so on.
Click to expand...

Yes, I would complain about a gap, sorry but I come from analogic, spend 2600€ (with mfc) to use the best guitar processor of the world, and when I try it, these gaps kill everything...sorry but my guitar playing involved that the sound continue while I'm switching...

I think that maybe using scene could help. But with mfc, we can not assign directly a sound's scene in the 5 first pitch.

I'll try XS1 switch, maybe it will work...
 
if you're sensitive to the drops, create all the tones you need for a single song / type of song and make them work within a single preset
when you switch between tones within a preset, the result is immediate and flawless
 
the manual will only help you regarding the methods avaible to switch things on/off and control parms in real time..
the rest is down to you..

try this as an experiment

set up a simple preset
in -> amp1 -> cab1 ->out
in -> amp2 -/ [also to cab1]

set up a nice basic riff / rhythm tone with amp1 and a nice solonig tone with amp2
use the same IA switch or EXT switch to flip-flop the amp's bypass
the bypass should be set to mute
amp2's modifier is set with opposite config to amp1's modifier
so...
when the IA / EXT switch is in the off state, amp1 sounds / amp2 is muted
when the IA / EXT switch is in the on state, amp1 is muted / amp2 sounds

once you nail this.... you can add the sweeteners
 
clarky said:
you've not seen my presets then... lol...
it's not a simple 'pure tone' config..
there's a ton of functional goodies going on in these

how about these... each clip is of a single preset..

this is my principle riffing / soloing preset


this is my principle clean / soloing preset [nice for ballads]


this one riffs and solos, and does some cool synth-like stuff


this one is a variation of the clean / solo one
Click to expand...


This thread is older that suds but If i remember correctly, you use the same setup as me. Care to share the patches?
 
clarky said:
the manual will only help you regarding the methods avaible to switch things on/off and control parms in real time..
the rest is down to you..

try this as an experiment

set up a simple preset
in -> amp1 -> cab1 ->out
in -> amp2 -/ [also to cab1]

set up a nice basic riff / rhythm tone with amp1 and a nice solonig tone with amp2
use the same IA switch or EXT switch to flip-flop the amp's bypass
the bypass should be set to mute
amp2's modifier is set with opposite config to amp1's modifier
so...
when the IA / EXT switch is in the off state, amp1 sounds / amp2 is muted
when the IA / EXT switch is in the on state, amp1 is muted / amp2 sounds

once you nail this.... you can add the sweeteners
Click to expand...

You're right: manual don't help me a lot, I figure I can change amp with Scene, (scene 1 amp1, scene 2 amp2, scene 3 amp 2 + effect etc.)

What you're proposing seems to be clever, but I don't see how to assign bypass amp1 or 2 with a lone switch IA.I found out how to assign switch IA to amp1 and another to amp 2, but it's useless...is it something I miss with modifiers ?

I'm gone for 2 days so I can't try anything, it just theorical preparation for tomorow...yeah these gaps haunt me !
 
Soma said:
Thanks for the advice guys, I'll check out the suggestions. In case it matters I'm talking about going from a clean rhythm sound to a dirty rhythm sound, e.g. the change happens going from the verse to the chorus of the song. So the change needs to be very precise.

Cheers.
Click to expand...
I thought that what scenes was for so instead of switching presets you make all your scenes for your song with different scenes
 
Enflure said:
You're right: manual don't help me a lot, I figure I can change amp with Scene, (scene 1 amp1, scene 2 amp2, scene 3 amp 2 + effect etc.)

What you're proposing seems to be clever, but I don't see how to assign bypass amp1 or 2 with a lone switch IA.I found out how to assign switch IA to amp1 and another to amp 2, but it's useless...is it something I miss with modifiers ?

I'm gone for 2 days so I can't try anything, it just theorical preparation for tomorow...yeah these gaps haunt me !
Click to expand...

you can change an IA's MIDI value [in the MFC] so that it matches one of external modifiers such as CC 17 which you can see via I/O: ctrl is assigned to ext ctrl 2
you will see this in the modifier as 'extern 2'
layout: amp: edit: mix tab across to bypass mode, set it to mute, then hit enter to get to the modifier
the top menu is 'source'. use the wheel to change from 'none' to 'extern 2'

when you hit your IA amp1 will switch on and off

do the same to amp2 [assigning to the same modifier], but this time in the modifier set min to on and max to off
so it'll work in reverse..

now when you hit the IA amp1 switches off and amp2 switch on
hit it again and amp2 switches off and amp1 switches on

you can carry on assigning things...
for example..
if amp2 is your solo tone and you want reverb and delay, assign their bypass to the same extern 2 source so they kick in with amp2
note: for these guys set the bypass to mute fx in so you preserve the tails of the effects [you don't want to chop them cos it sounds crap]

from here on... it's up to you and your imagination...
cos you can do all kinds of cool stuff
 
I assume it was something like that ! Ok Thanks a lot Clarky, I'll make a try tonight.

But I already see one limitation: amp1 is my clean sound, amp 2 is distorsion crunch. I use your method to switch between these two and everything go fine, suddenly I have to pass from clean to solo, for that I want to use amp2, a drive boost a phaser and a delay.

To limit actions I can assign drive phaser and delay to one shift (using scene) however I have to switch my amps before: It's two actions.Phaser and delay can wait but the drive boost schould be sync with amp 2.

If I assign drive "on" to ext 2 (like amp 2) it always be on with amp 2...so no crunch.
 
what I do with my presets is not to try to get them to do too much...
I figure out what is needed for a specific song or type of song and make a preset for that..
alos.. my presets have the extra capability that the dirty tones can morph to clean via an expression pedal..

example
a song needs a riffing tone and a solo tone
this will be one preset

a song needs a clean tone and a solo tone
this will be another preset

so I end up with presets of these two basic types..
any extras needed will be variations on one of the two above [by copying the preset and adding the extra things]..

I don't try to cram every possible thing I need for a gig [or in my total live needs] into a single preset
the strategy is to try to avoid changing presets during a song...
If I had to, I'd be happy to make a preset for every song [which in reality is never needed]
with 300+ presets in the Axe, I'm never going to run out

if you check out the recordings above, each recording is of a single preset
riff/solo1 provides a riffing tone, a solo tone and will morph to clean
cln/solo1 provides a clean tone, a solo tone and the solo tone will morph to clean

all of my presets fall into either a riff/solo or clean solo type
the 'extras' determine what the morph feature does [morph to clean or in the case of riff/solo4, morph to something more exotic]
plus I have an additional XS switch for turning on other fx / fx combinations [like a phaser, octaver, chain of fx]
 
I read a lot about what you do in your preset, and heard some of them, it's impressive !

Love the morph effect, and yes: no drop, no latency...good job !!!

But I can't afford to use an expression pedal to morph sound...I sing and play, that's why I wan't something simple to change my sound, I'm too busy playing and singing (with high head to do it in the mic) to launch myself in a tap-dancing show.(I have a TC helicon create XT for my voice to, and sometimes I'm a little overwhelmed)

So the global idea was one shift=one sound, and every song will have the same shift 1-5 order clean/crunch/OD/effects/effects 2/ ...I'm pretty sure I can do it in one preset, cos I don't want to heard any drop.(and I think global sound inside a song could be more homogeneous that way)

So to night, when I come back from Luxembourg, I'll first try with SCENE, after all, this function is for that purpose.

If I still heard gap...witch is, I'm afraid, a huge possibility (specially when I change amp) I'll try you method.

But the limitation I expose to you is a real issue to me, not that I try to make a omnipotent sound, I really need it, inside a one song.

In fact, I need to jump from clean to crunch then clean to OD and crunch to OD with effects (for exemple), inside a lot of songs, but I'll probably do a preset for each one of the 14 songs we have in our set.

It represent a lot more work and worries I expected...(I found a lot of usine preset very good, and with little adjustments I prepare myself to simply use them in a bank 5, no touching any IA)

For people that hesitate to buy an axe FX 2 to change there analogical stuff, like in London I would say:Mind the gap!http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-Qw__Oh4YsnI/UTSNqAzzSeI/AAAAAAAAblQ/BGHZXuwsY3E/s1600/mind_the_gap.jpg
 
Hey,

Yesterday evening I started to build a preset with different scenes. With scenes there is no gap :) I switch from high gain to super clean with reverb, chorus etc and no gap at all. From one scene to another you can switch amp1/amp2 or the X/Y state of an amp1/effects etc.
The only limitation is the CPU load that becomes high because of all the 'preloaded' effects. So I will have to make different presets to support different songs.

This is way way better than the switching in my old rack (Triaxis->G-Force->20/20). There was always a gap/amp gain starting up etc.
 
clarky said:
if you're sensitive to the drops, create all the tones you need for a single song / type of song and make them work within a single preset
when you switch between tones within a preset, the result is immediate and flawless
Click to expand...

Not sure what's coming for us in the new firmware, but trust Clarky's approach to presets. He has incredibly complex presets that involve a lot of different tones within that one preset, and absolutely no gaps, pops or glitches. "Seamless"!
Clarky, I think at some point, you may want to revisit the Post you had on preset creation. Maybe redo it now that you have made so many advancements, I know I found it incredibly helpful. Of course, this depends on the new features headed our way.
 
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Bill Piersall said:
Not sure what's coming for us in the new firmware, but trust Clarky's approach to presets. He has incredibly complex presets that involve a lot of different tones within that one preset, and absolutely no gaps, pops or glitches. "Seamless"!
Clarky, I think at some point, you may want to revisit the Post you had on preset creation. Maybe redo it now that you have made so many advancements, I know I found it incredibly helpful. Of course, this depends on the new features headed our way.
Click to expand...

If you are referring to Adam's post about new features. that post was back in October. The feature has been revealed and implemented. It was scenes.
 
Enflure said:
I read a lot about what you do in your preset, and heard some of them, it's impressive !

Love the morph effect, and yes: no drop, no latency...good job !!!

But I can't afford to use an expression pedal to morph sound...I sing and play, that's why I wan't something simple to change my sound, I'm too busy playing and singing (with high head to do it in the mic) to launch myself in a tap-dancing show.(I have a TC helicon create XT for my voice to, and sometimes I'm a little overwhelmed)

So the global idea was one shift=one sound, and every song will have the same shift 1-5 order clean/crunch/OD/effects/effects 2/ ...I'm pretty sure I can do it in one preset, cos I don't want to heard any drop.(and I think global sound inside a song could be more homogeneous that way)

So to night, when I come back from Luxembourg, I'll first try with SCENE, after all, this function is for that purpose.

If I still heard gap...witch is, I'm afraid, a huge possibility (specially when I change amp) I'll try you method.

But the limitation I expose to you is a real issue to me, not that I try to make a omnipotent sound, I really need it, inside a one song.

In fact, I need to jump from clean to crunch then clean to OD and crunch to OD with effects (for exemple), inside a lot of songs, but I'll probably do a preset for each one of the 14 songs we have in our set.

It represent a lot more work and worries I expected...(I found a lot of usine preset very good, and with little adjustments I prepare myself to simply use them in a bank 5, no touching any IA)

For people that hesitate to buy an axe FX 2 to change there analogical stuff, like in London I would say:Mind the gap!http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-Qw__Oh4YsnI/UTSNqAzzSeI/AAAAAAAAblQ/BGHZXuwsY3E/s1600/mind_the_gap.jpg
Click to expand...


I've taken Clarky's approach, and modified it for my own use. Maybe something along these lines would address some of your issues? Everything assigned to the IA switch is done with Modifiers, they provide an awesome level of control!

I use a Clean Amp and a Distorted Amp that are assigned to an Expression pedal using a Mixer Block.
My chain starts with a Wah and Phaser shared by both amps, then splits into two parallel chains.

Each chain contains a Comp, either a Drive or PEQ block, the Amp, a GEQ and a Filter. The Filter is used with an Envelope and just used to control the Bass frequencies.
The chain goes into a Mixer Block panned hard right/left that feeds a Stereo Cab Block. That way each Amp has it's own dedicated Cab. The Level control in the Mixer Block is assigned to an Expression pedal using a Modifier, allowing me to seamlessly blend from one Amp to the other. On some presets, I've found leaving a bit of the Clean Amp in with the Distorted Amp allows for some great pushed, or crunch tones. Playing with the curve on the Modifier Page allows the fade from one Amp to the other to sound very natural.

The GEQ's are used for Solo's and are assigned to an IA switch. This gives each Amp it's own GEQ for level and tone adjustments.

The same IA switch changes Delay and Reverb levels for the Solo tone. I will assign this same switch to turn on Phaser, Rotary, Drive or anything else the Solo may need for a specific song.

The chain then goes out to a shared Chorus and Rotary Block and splits again to run Reverb and Delay in parallel. These feed a second mixer. I have the Wet/Dry mix assigned to the Expression pedal so Clean and Distorted tones have different levels of effect. I then assign the Input Gain in the Effect Block, and Level in the Mixer Block to the same IA used for Solos. This gives me the changes needed for the Solo tone.

So, within one preset, using 1 Expression Pedal and 1 IA switch I have a Clean Rhythm, Clean Lead, Distorted Rhythm and Distorted Lead tone with seamless transitions and perfect Reverb and Delay tails. I find it very easy to use, and really like hitting the Solo IA and being able to morph between Clean and Distorted Lead tones. No Scenes, No X-Y, No dropouts, No Glitches, No Latency. I only use X-Y occasionally for Delay, but try to avoid it to keep things seamless.
 
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Enflure said:
But I can't afford to use an expression pedal to morph sound...I sing and play, that's why I wan't something simple to change my sound, I'm too busy playing and singing (with high head to do it in the mic) to launch myself in a tap-dancing show.(I have a TC helicon create XT for my voice to, and sometimes I'm a little overwhelmed)
Click to expand...

here's the thing with a expression pedal...
you don't have to use it slowly / ride it / cock half way [although you obviously can]..
you can also use it as if it were a switch just by stomping on the toe or the heel..
and it's a nice big fat target to aim your foot at..

Enflure said:
So the global idea was one shift=one sound, and every song will have the same shift 1-5 order clean/crunch/OD/effects/effects 2/ ...I'm pretty sure I can do it in one preset, cos I don't want to heard any drop.(and I think global sound inside a song could be more homogeneous that way)
Click to expand...

scenes will be good for this sort of thing for sure

Enflure said:
But the limitation I expose to you is a real issue to me, not that I try to make a omnipotent sound, I really need it, inside a one song.
Click to expand...

so you have songs that require more than 4 tones???
that's quite a lot..
generally [at least for my music] it's just 2 or 3..
although there is one song where I need about 5..
for this one though I have two presets [riff/solo1 and riff/solo2]
the riffing tone is the same in both, and I've found a nice moment in the song where I can switch preset

my approach to this stuff ain't for everyone..
but it's worked well for me / my live situation
killer thing is that the Axe offers several possible solutions - so I'm sure that with a little imagination / experimentation you'll find a way
 
I finally got around to setting up scenes on a couple presets and my LFP. Man, it is so good. I still need to hone in on how I want to set things up (been waiting on Axe Edit since it makes all this so much easier), but there truly is zero detectable latency.
 
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