Preset packs for the AX8?

[Mutha Goose]

I will be providing backline for a “band karaoke” type thing in the near future. So I said to myself, “self, this is what the AX8 was made for!” I figured I would provide a couple dozen artist-based presets for people to be able to just plug in and go, starting from something they would be familiar with. I came here to the forum looking for reviews of artist pre-sets packs. I purchased two different preset packs from 2 different sources, giving me more than 50 presets to play with (time vs. money). I loaded them into my AX8… loaded the respective IRs where needed… grabbed a couple of guitars with similar pickup configurations as shown in the demo videos or noted in the “read me” notes… loaded up my MP3 player and tried them all out, playing along with the song/artist they claim to match.


I cannot tell you how disappointed I was with almost every one these presets. None were even close, and many were completely un-usable. I went back to the demo videos, and these packs do not sound the same in my system as they do in these videos. I am not talking about minor differences, I am talking about the difference between usable or not. (yes, I am using FRFR, and tried with 2 different setups)


Now, one thing I noticed, was these appear to have been created and demoed using Axe-FXs, and not AX8s. Is my experience just because these presets just really do not translate well? I am curious on other people’s experience. Have you tried any of these packs and been happy with them? I would love to hear your thoughts and experiences.


Also, the “read me” notes in these packs (and in IR packs that I have) say that I can drag and drop them into AXE-Edit. AXE-Edit does not appear to support drag and drop (I updated in January). What am I missing?


(I will not say which packs I purchased, because my intent is NOT to trash anyone’s hard work or source of income)

 

[lqdsnddist]

What seems to always be the case with artist settings is when the artist plays them they sound spot on, when I play them they don’t.

Take someone who’s got awesome chops and their settings sound great. I have all of Bobby’s Brit Floyd patches, crafted by the artist himself, and they sure sound better when he plays them than when I do

 

[Ericbr1]

I will be providing backline for a “band karaoke” type thing in the near future. So I said to myself, “self, this is what the AX8 was made for!” I figured I would provide a couple dozen artist-based presets for people to be able to just plug in and go, starting from something they would be familiar with. I came here to the forum looking for reviews of artist pre-sets packs. I purchased two different preset packs from 2 different sources, giving me more than 50 presets to play with (time vs. money). I loaded them into my AX8… loaded the respective IRs where needed… grabbed a couple of guitars with similar pickup configurations as shown in the demo videos or noted in the “read me” notes… loaded up my MP3 player and tried them all out, playing along with the song/artist they claim to match.

I cannot tell you how disappointed I was with almost every one these presets. None were even close, and many were completely un-usable. I went back to the demo videos, and these packs do not sound the same in my system as they do in these videos. I am not talking about minor differences, I am talking about the difference between usable or not. (yes, I am using FRFR, and tried with 2 different setups)

Now, one thing I noticed, was these appear to have been created and demoed using Axe-FXs, and not AX8s. Is my experience just because these presets just really do not translate well? I am curious on other people’s experience. Have you tried any of these packs and been happy with them? I would love to hear your thoughts and experiences.

Also, the “read me” notes in these packs (and in IR packs that I have) say that I can drag and drop them into AXE-Edit. AXE-Edit does not appear to support drag and drop (I updated in January). What am I missing?

(I will not say which packs I purchased, because my intent is NOT to trash anyone’s hard work or source of income)

Your post is the reason I haven't bought any presets ever, and write my own. I've found being a veteran guitarist (i.e. old!) and definitely veteran gearhead is EVERY PIECE in the equation changes the tone. . You need to use the same exact FRFR, play with the same picking technique, same guitar, same pickups, have similar style,etc,etc. Otherwise you will sound different. I have 20+ tube amps, and I love my AX8, and 20+ guitars, and with all I dial in I sound very similar to 'me'. . Good luck and maybe it's a simple answer you're missing (like what you proposed about the different units) and not mine. I'm eagerly anticipating other responses on this thread, and love your post although I hope you work it out.
Eric

 

[Mutha Goose]

I guess I should also state that I am not a novice player by anyone's definition... I mean, I'm not Steve Vai, but I know far more than your average bear when it comes to playing and performing (my 1st paid pro-gig was about 38 years ago). I am also a design EE in the audio industry with almost 30 years experience. I understand acoustics and psycho-acoustics quite deeply (they have been my life's study). Some of you may have even played through some of my designs or enjoyed them in your car. I only point this out because I really do get the rest of the equation (I really hate "big talking" and do not like talking about my day job in any public forums).

I know everyone's fingers are different, and that the sum of all of the signal-chain and playback room differences can make for HUGE variation. Please understand, that when I say these presets are WAY off and unusable, I am not talking about "they don't sound exactly the same"... I am saying, "you hit one chord and go, 'WTH?' ".

And this isn't my experience with all of these packs. Someone here recently posted a Metallica pack covering their first bunch of albums. This was a great pack and well worth the money. They were close enough, that I only had to do minor tweeting to account for my playing to get some remarkable likenesses (I sometimes play with a Metallica cover band). But this guy even talked about doing some pretty extensive tweaks when he converted them to the AX8... so that's part of what prompted me to ask if this is simply a translation issue.

 

[Geezerjohn]

All presets sound different depending on what you are playing them through. This holds true whether the presets are from a purchased preset pack, freebies, or home grown. I respect that you are not trashing the preset creators, as I think it might be a bit unfair to criticize the artist for what is likely a system issue. Even with preset packs, the AX8 is not a plug in and play device (IMHO). Some of the presets sound great to my ears, but some do not. Personally, I think the expectation that the AX8 will sound killer no matter what is a bit unreasonable. I want to encourage you to keep tweaking and dialing in your presets, whether that are from a purchased package or your own. Some of the power users here like @austinbuddy, @Moke, @fremen, @2112, (sorry if I forgot anyone) have helped many, many players through their presets, both purchased and free. Their work is a great blessing to this community.

 

[Mutha Goose]

...I think it might be a bit unfair to criticize the artist for what is likely a system issue. Even with preset packs, the AX8 is not a plug in and play device (IMHO). Some of the presets sound great to my ears, but some do not. Personally, I think the expectation that the AX8 will sound killer no matter what is a bit unreasonable. I want to encourage you to keep tweaking and dialing in your presets, whether that are from a purchased package or your own. Some of the power users here like @austinbuddy, @Moke, @fremen, @2112, (sorry if I forgot anyone) have helped many, many players through their presets, both purchased and free. Their work is a great blessing to this community.

I didn't think I had too high of expectations, or that I thought it would just be "plug and play"... but maybe I did. Good input. And I have been reading and playing with the stuff those guys have put out. The advice, time and coaching from these guys are GREAT! I very much appreciate all of that content and effort. The presets I create, are using much of the advice these guys have put out there. So, if my post sounds in anyway ungrateful, I am sorry. That isn't how I meant to come across.

In my own head, I was more wondering if the presets simply don't translate across platforms. If I wanted to look at someone else's, should I try to limit myself to one created on the AX8 instead of converted for use?

 

[Geezerjohn]

In my own head, I was more wondering if the presets simply don't translate across platforms. If I wanted to look at someone else's, should I try to limit myself to one created on the AX8 instead of converted for use?

No sweat brother. You were clear that you were not trashing the preset creators, so I didn't take it that way.

I agree with your thinking that presets don't necessarily translate well across platforms. I mostly play in one venue, but do occasionally play other venues and I have noticed that each time I am in a new place, my presets sound "different". By different I don't mean good or bad, just different. Honestly, I don't have a lot of experience with presets created on other platforms and then translated to the AX8. Maybe one of the guys that has a lot of experience with that will chime in here.

Personally, I approach my AX8 like it was a "real rig" meaning amps and effects. I build my amps from scratch, based on what I need to be able to play the music I play. I have been fortunate enough to have owned amps similar to some of the amps that are in the AX8 (VOX AC30tb, Plexis, Fenders, etc). I dial in my presets as I would with the real thing. I treat my AX8 as a pedalboard. I built my presets on the AX8 and personally don't use any preset packs, but that is just me. Plenty of people here do use the preset packs and seem to really like them.

Anyway, your point regarding how the AX8 translates through different systems is certainly a valid observation . For whatever it's worth, back when I performed using real amps, I had to tweak them too as every venue was different, Some rooms were very boomy, some were very reflective, some were great, some even sounded different from sound check to when they were packed with people. I guess it's just the nature of the beast.

 

[Moke]

I will be providing backline for a “band karaoke” type thing in the near future. So I said to myself, “self, this is what the AX8 was made for!” I figured I would provide a couple dozen artist-based presets for people to be able to just plug in and go, starting from something they would be familiar with. I came here to the forum looking for reviews of artist pre-sets packs. I purchased two different preset packs from 2 different sources, giving me more than 50 presets to play with (time vs. money). I loaded them into my AX8… loaded the respective IRs where needed… grabbed a couple of guitars with similar pickup configurations as shown in the demo videos or noted in the “read me” notes… loaded up my MP3 player and tried them all out, playing along with the song/artist they claim to match.


I cannot tell you how disappointed I was with almost every one these presets. None were even close, and many were completely un-usable. I went back to the demo videos, and these packs do not sound the same in my system as they do in these videos. I am not talking about minor differences, I am talking about the difference between usable or not. (yes, I am using FRFR, and tried with 2 different setups)


Now, one thing I noticed, was these appear to have been created and demoed using Axe-FXs, and not AX8s. Is my experience just because these presets just really do not translate well? I am curious on other people’s experience. Have you tried any of these packs and been happy with them? I would love to hear your thoughts and experiences.


Also, the “read me” notes in these packs (and in IR packs that I have) say that I can drag and drop them into AXE-Edit. AXE-Edit does not appear to support drag and drop (I updated in January). What am I missing?


(I will not say which packs I purchased, because my intent is NOT to trash anyone’s hard work or source of income)

Hi @Mutha Goose, I'm not sure if any of the presets in question were mine? But either way, have you contacted the preset maker(s) with your issues?

Did you purchase Axe-Fx II presets and then convert them yourself for the AX8? Or were they converted by the preset maker? Even though 'FracTool' is an awesome utility, there are still some issues when presets are converted. Some have a minor impact on the tone, like the amp block levels. And some have a major impact on the tone, because of missing blocks and wrongly converted controllers (also the Multi-Delay block still has conversion issues). The latter is tougher to deal with if you don't have an Axe-Fx II to compare the presets with. Depending on the preset itself, and AX8 version can be quite different than an Axe-Fx II version.

Whether any of the presets were from me or not, I would be willing to help you out if I can.

 

[Mutha Goose]

Hi @Mutha Goose
Did you purchase Axe-Fx II presets and then convert them yourself for the AX8? Or were they converted by the preset maker?

These were converted by the preset maker.

And no, they were not from you. But thank you for your offer I did download one of your free presets of a modern metal tone. I wanted to see how you (and others) approached a preset. I made some tweaks to my tastes, and this is now one of my main modern tones. I was particularly interested in the way you used the GEQ to create a very small notch and how effective that was (thank you for sharing that BTW).

Your comments on some of the issues you've had converting from one platform to another really do go to my question (that coupled with the idea that maybe my expectations were set too high ). I had thought of these as being un-usable, when maybe what I should be thinking is that they are starting points that may be closer than I realized with the right tweaks. I will try tweaking and see what results.

Much like GeezerJohn described, I also have a large collection of amps and I have been building my presets very much like I was using my real amps and floor board. Prior to the AX8, I have always run a very simple rig. 1 pedal board that I used with different amps depending on the scenario. An EP pedal boost in front to push the input tubes for the distortion voicing I wanted... and a chorus (wide and slow) and a clean-boost delay pedal in the effects loop for lead tones (to push the output tubes into gentle compression). I can't do it exactly like this in the AX8 (or maybe I could and just haven't figured out how yet). Had I not been asked to do this Band Karaoke thing, I don't think I would have bought these presets. In general, I don't try to match someone else. I just figured this would save me time and give folks some cool options.

 

[Sonofiam]

I have not purchased any packs but have tried some of the free presets from some of the usual suspects. My experience was similar to yours in that I had to tweak them to get the sound I expected or felt satisfied with. The only benefit I've ever really received from other's presets is how they approach different effects, not amp tones. I've actually found that the default amp settings don't need to be tweaked much and most of the effect tricks I've seen can be found with a YouTube search. These factors have caused me to stick with creating presets from scratch. I suppose it all comes down to how much time one has or is willing to spend messing around with presets vs playing.

It is nice to have and I appreciate the guys that take the time to create presets and preset packs for those who are more in the 'instant gratification' camp. I personally get the most enjoyment and gratification when I immerse myself into a subject and get hands on with every aspect. Others get more enjoyment out of skipping the mundane or tedious work and getting right to the end goal. Best analogy I can give is fly fishing. Some guys prefer to buy the flies and go fishing. For me, a lot of the experience was doing the research on which bugs to use, buying the material and tying the flies to mimic these bugs. Same with creating presets. Finding a tone I need or want, doing the research to find out what amps are used (or emulating my own), what effects and their settings. Then choosing the amp and effects and creating a preset that gives the tone I'm looking for is incredibly satisfying for me. Doesn't mean as much or matter to others and that's cool. There's no right or wrong approach here.

 

[Moke]

These were converted by the preset maker.

And no, they were not from you. But thank you for your offer I did download one of your free presets of a modern metal tone. I wanted to see how you (and others) approached a preset. I made some tweaks to my tastes, and this is now one of my main modern tones. I was particularly interested in the way you used the GEQ to create a very small notch and how effective that was (thank you for sharing that BTW).

Your comments on some of the issues you've had converting from one platform to another really do go to my question (that coupled with the idea that maybe my expectations were set too high ). I had thought of these as being un-usable, when maybe what I should be thinking is that they are starting points that may be closer than I realized with the right tweaks. I will try tweaking and see what results.

Much like GeezerJohn described, I also have a large collection of amps and I have been building my presets very much like I was using my real amps and floor board. Prior to the AX8, I have always run a very simple rig. 1 pedal board that I used with different amps depending on the scenario. An EP pedal boost in front to push the input tubes for the distortion voicing I wanted... and a chorus (wide and slow) and a clean-boost delay pedal in the effects loop for lead tones (to push the output tubes into gentle compression). I can't do it exactly like this in the AX8 (or maybe I could and just haven't figured out how yet). Had I not been asked to do this Band Karaoke thing, I don't think I would have bought these presets. In general, I don't try to match someone else. I just figured this would save me time and give folks some cool options.

No worries,
If converted by the maker, then they would/should have been able to test them out and re-tweak them the match the Axe-Fx II versions?

BTW... When I stated that "Depending on the preset itself, and AX8 version can be quite different than an Axe-Fx II version." I meant that the preset itself can end up quite different, not the tone of the preset. It sometimes take using alternate blocks, or other methods to achieve the same sonic results. The goal is to have them sound as close as possible to the Axe-Fx II versions. Just converting them rarely works.

 

[paulasbell]

I meant that the preset itself can end up quite different, not the tone of the preset. It sometimes take using alternate blocks, or other methods to achieve the same sonic results. The goal is to have them sound as close as possible to the Axe-Fx II versions. Just converting them rarely works.

I'm a reasonably experienced owner of both an AxeFx2, and an AX8. I tend to use each for different live gigs, so don't tend to sweat bullets about comparing their exact tones to one another. However, I DO strive to have basically the "same" presets (that I've personally built and tweaked in my AxeFx) in my AX8.
I've sometimes used Fractool to "import" one of my presets from one box to the other... but for various reasons, that often isn't possible. Or, at least, doesn't work well. Reverb quality and density, Cab quality (as well as stereo vs mono), Cab preamp and DePhase, and similar CPU issues require compromise within the AX8 presets. Sometimes, using block import from one box to another works, when preset conversion doesn't.
However, my experience generally is that they sound close to identical TONALLY, when set to the same parameters.
You're a super-informed guy, Moke, so I'd love to understand exactly what you meant by the above statement.
Are you saying that porting presets from one box to another is not as easy as "import- convert- boom"? If so, excellent point, which I've certainly experienced.
Or are you saying that the same parameters in the various blocks of each device will likely sound different in the 2 devices? Because that hasn't really been my experience. Am I missing something?

 

[Moke]

I think that you understand it correctly. If the presets are identical, then they usually sound virtually identical. But when the Axe-Fx II version contains a block not available at all, or more instances of a block than is possible in the AX8, then some tweaking is needed to get them close (if possible?).

Sometimes you can use another block to fill the need, A Flanger as a Chorus, or vise-versa, A Delay or Multi-Delay block as Reverb, Detune, or Flanger, attach an Envelope controller to the Input Trim in the Amp block as a Pre-Compressor, etc....

 

[Gizmo]

I will not say which packs I purchased, because my intent is NOT to trash anyone’s hard work or source of income

I been around these forums for quite awhile now and am use to seeing threads dissolve into name calling and hurt feelings (keyboard/cyber courage). Mutha Goose, I want to commend you on your respectful and civil tone. Good luck with your "Band Karaoke" gig. It sounds like it would be a lot of work to create all those presets on your own. I almost always have to tweak other's presets and find them mostly useful in discovering interesting routing or effect settings. They never sound the same (some very different like you've experienced) with my setup. Any presets in particular that you are looking for?

 

[lqdsnddist]

My feeling on using others presets is the same as it was in my hardware days, and that is that you can get the same pedals, set your amp the same way, and still not sound the same.

I used to pour over photos of live gigs trying to see if I could read the knob positions on someones amp, and watch any rig rundown etc trying to see what pedals they were running, but as we have all likely seen, you can get that pedal they Andy made some amazing on a Pgs video and have it sound nothing like it when you play it.

Doesn’t mean presets are bad or a waste of money etc, they provide a certain tone, for better or worse. Might not be what you expected but still can be of use.

Presets are just the digital equivalent of setting your knobs like the photo and expecting the same tones.

I went from a II to a ax8 and found my settings transferred really well, near identical provided I used the same blocks and options.

I also find that my III sounds like my ax8 settings for the most part, because I’m tweaking a given amp the same way regardless of the unit. I run my input gain and tone stack a certain way for my taste and guitars, I favor certain Ir’s, dial in a similar amount of reverb etc. sounds like my tone but someone else might find it vary different with their pickups, their attack etc. I usually use fingers, no pick, and weak single coils. Hot pickups and a pick would sound totally different.

Bottom line is presets are a starting point, an idea, but still will need to do some tweaks to make them your own.

 

[LancerS]

Mutha Goose,
Take your time and really dive into the dynamics of the all the different amp and cab combinations which will advance your interpretation of the cover tones you are looking for...Take what you find on the forum and the Axe Exchange and use those presets as reference points and you will quickly get to where you want to be in the learning curve. Yek's Guide to the Fractal Audio Amplifiers is mandatory reading as it also allows you gain insights into all of the amp models which are waiting on you to discover them inside this amazing piece of technology which you may not have previous experience with; also, picking several go to IR's for different tones as well as tuning the presets to your particular method of monitoring you plan to use live are extremely critical pieces of the puzzle as well.
Everyone on this forum are amazing players and connoisseurs of guitar tone who will gladly help you get up to speed with their experience...You'll never look back.

 

[flynv]

So when I had my 11R I down loaded the 11R user group presets. I found one for a song I was doing and...........usually it wasn't close.
Then I started loading presets not paying attention to what they were. I just played a preset and a Beatles song flowed out. Look at the preset and it's Van Halen. Grab a preset and I get Van Morrison and it's a Doobie Bros preset. Sometimes "not knowing" is your friend.
It was really fun for a change and I got a bunch of useful presets I had to rename.

Have fun dude that's what it's all about.