Starfighter
Experienced
Hi guys (and gals)!
I've run strictly FRFR for a while, but have ordered a power amp (GT1000FX) and a couple of NL212s from Matrix - to hopefully add some "amp in room" and punch to my setup here at home. My question is how to rearrange my presets for an FRFR AND amp+cab setup. More specific; how to place and route the delays and reverbs. I have a lot of U2-presets (based on Michael's FW10-presets), and the delays and reverbs are almost always placed after the cab block in the signal chain. Meaning; that if I insert an FX Loop (for output 2 to the Matrix amp+cabs) before the cab block, this signal will be dry - no delays and reverbs. That's not my plan, I am not going for a W/D/W-setup.
I've searched the forum quite a bit, and seems that the consensus is that the placement of delays and reverbs in relation to the cab block is irrelevant; it will sound the same whether you put them before or after the cab. Cliff is quoted:
And from the Wiki:
So - according to this, it would be all right to move the delays and reverbs BEFORE the cab block - so they are a part of the signal chain running into the FX LOOP, like this:
"Before"-picture (FRFR only):
"After"-picture (FRFR+pwr amp/cab):
Would this work? According to the info I have gathered on the forum - it will. But - what to do with more complex presets? Like this?
Or this?
Does anyone have any experience with or thoughts on the subject that they would like to share? I have not received my amp and cabs yet, just trying to mentally prepare for the adjustments I have to make.
Cheers
I've run strictly FRFR for a while, but have ordered a power amp (GT1000FX) and a couple of NL212s from Matrix - to hopefully add some "amp in room" and punch to my setup here at home. My question is how to rearrange my presets for an FRFR AND amp+cab setup. More specific; how to place and route the delays and reverbs. I have a lot of U2-presets (based on Michael's FW10-presets), and the delays and reverbs are almost always placed after the cab block in the signal chain. Meaning; that if I insert an FX Loop (for output 2 to the Matrix amp+cabs) before the cab block, this signal will be dry - no delays and reverbs. That's not my plan, I am not going for a W/D/W-setup.
I've searched the forum quite a bit, and seems that the consensus is that the placement of delays and reverbs in relation to the cab block is irrelevant; it will sound the same whether you put them before or after the cab. Cliff is quoted:
"It actually doesn't matter for most effects. It the effects are linear, time-invariant (LTI), then the order is irrelevant. If you don't use the cabinet drive then it's LTI. Reverb is LTI. Delay is LTI. Now if you use modulation technically it's not LTI but it is "wide-sense stationary" so you can treat it as LTI. The only blocks that aren't LTI are the stuff that does pitch shifting (time-variant) or distortion (nonlinear)."
And from the Wiki:
"You can place the effects loop anywhere in the chain (just add the fx loop block). Unless you are running a stereo cab or 2 mono cabs panned hard L/R, you may want to place stereo effects after the cab. The cab is a linear time invariant effect (unless you add drive) so effects like delay and reverb will sound the same before or after it. As Cliff and others have stated on numerous occasions LTI effects can be placed before and after each other and they will sound the same. Only when placed before or after non-LTI effects (drive, amps, et. al) it really matters. The one caveat there is that some effects are mono, placing effects before and after that makes a difference."
So - according to this, it would be all right to move the delays and reverbs BEFORE the cab block - so they are a part of the signal chain running into the FX LOOP, like this:
"Before"-picture (FRFR only):
"After"-picture (FRFR+pwr amp/cab):
Would this work? According to the info I have gathered on the forum - it will. But - what to do with more complex presets? Like this?
Or this?
Does anyone have any experience with or thoughts on the subject that they would like to share? I have not received my amp and cabs yet, just trying to mentally prepare for the adjustments I have to make.
Cheers