Preset charging creators

Only folks with talent to inspire buyers to post glowing reviews &/or clips will have any sustainable business selling presets, or most anything for that matter.

Folks that want everyone to post everything for free, or to just put a donate button......usually aren't the ones creating things people want.

Also.....if someone's talent is taking ideas/settings from other folks presets & then ending up with something that sounds different enough &/or better to enough folks, then they have essentially created their own preset. Giving some "inspired by" credit would be cool of course.....

Song writing, for example, is all about taking/stealing/being inspired from all that you've heard before & then calling the finished product your own.....but being clever enough in your composition to avoid being sued:cool:
 
I have tried many of the presets in axe change, ones people post in the recording threads, and preset of the day. I find that due to the differences in the way people use the axe fx, and differences in equipment, that 98% of these don't transfer well to my rig. I have heard recordings people have made here and think, man that sounds amazing! When I download the preset, it sounds like shit. Like others have said, it's just knob turning. The key here is, knowing what knobs to turn and what will sound best for YOUR equipment and the way YOU are using it. I would much rather buy a book where someone can explain in great detail - this knob does this. A combination of these knobs do this- if you want to sound like ( insert fav guitarist ) you should do this- etc etc etc. Otherwise aside from paying someone to come to my home and create a preset for every song, solo, effect- I'm happier to learn how best to do it myself.
 
nicolasrivera said:
What they are selling it's their creative way of making guitars sounds sound great out of it!

If you invest in top quality mics, preamps, studio sound treatment etc, why give them for free?
Click to expand...

I completely agree with you. That's how I see it as well, but I was trying to draw a parallel between the two products because I believe they both have value for the same reason - the creator have knowledge, skill, and abilities that we don't.
 
Jimmytwotimes said:
I have tried many of the presets in axe change, ones people post in the recording threads, and preset of the day. I find that due to the differences in the way people use the axe fx, and differences in equipment, that 98% of these don't transfer well to my rig. I have heard recordings people have made here and think, man that sounds amazing! When I download the preset, it sounds like shit. Like others have said, it's just knob turning. The key here is, knowing what knobs to turn and what will sound best for YOUR equipment and the way YOU are using it. I would much rather buy a book where someone can explain in great detail - this knob does this. A combination of these knobs do this- if you want to sound like ( insert fav guitarist ) you should do this- etc etc etc. Otherwise aside from paying someone to come to my home and create a preset for every song, solo, effect- I'm happier to learn how best to do it myself.
Click to expand...
Completely agree
 
Before I go deeper let me make it clear. I am not against getting paid. It's what you are asking money for and what are the consequenses.

I dont know the answer and thats why I started this discussion.

There are many different views and I think this discussion clears up confusion and brings light to areas that don't seem obvious.
 
Jimmytwotimes said:
I have tried many of the presets in axe change, ones people post in the recording threads, and preset of the day. I find that due to the differences in the way people use the axe fx, and differences in equipment, that 98% of these don't transfer well to my rig. I have heard recordings people have made here and think, man that sounds amazing! When I download the preset, it sounds like shit. Like others have said, it's just knob turning. The key here is, knowing what knobs to turn and what will sound best for YOUR equipment and the way YOU are using it. I would much rather buy a book where someone can explain in great detail - this knob does this. A combination of these knobs do this- if you want to sound like ( insert fav guitarist ) you should do this- etc etc etc. Otherwise aside from paying someone to come to my home and create a preset for every song, solo, effect- I'm happier to learn how best to do it myself.
Click to expand...

Hey I find the same thing with most IR packs, there are a million flavors of unusable sounds. Then when I find maybe one it sounds bad with another guitar or amp simulation. Because of this I almost always go back to stock cabs ( though some of those are from IR 'companies)
 
So back to downloadig presets that don't sound right with your setup therefor it has no value for you.

I bought Fremen's pack, even I knew it will not sound as good with my setup as in his video.

I bought it for the collection of the effects.

Not the amps settings or IRs that would not work for me anyway. I apprecitate the time he put in to collect all these together and organize them.

I don't care if It had one of my presets in there or not, because I was not paying for the preset.
He is not promising The Sound.

I dont think he would care if someone reused one of presets and post it, because he is not selling " a Preset"

So that brings up another question.

Effect blocks.

Do you own the blocks in the preset?

Can I reuse or just sell the block itself? Think of U2 delays or song where the effect is more important then the guitar sound. VH phase etc.

Someone could have hours or days in that on specific effect blocks.

Can I sell only effectblocks and claim "royalty" form paying presets that used that or got inspired by it?

How can we make it fair to everyone?
 
Excellent point...the effects. I bought a couple presets from the Dude, and the price of admission was worth it for his WAH and a couple DELAY settings, and the FILTER settings, and his CAB block(s). Also, being able to see how he fabricated his ambient? lines and the acoustic portions where second to none.


For what I got the presets were CHEAP.
Now I use his WAH in ALL of my presets.
Thanks Mr M, your presets are awesome.:cool:
 
Last edited:
Tex Axe said:
Hypothetical here I take my tube amp I paid an arm and a leg for to someone to fix the amp
while they are fixing the amp they decide ok if im fixing it then im going to build them and sell it
and if you got a problem with that then tough ok so the guy who takes the arm and a leg amp to be fixed
gets the amp fixed then the amp is sold as something else which belonged to someone else to begin with and it was voiced
for that said artist but the amp CAUGHT FIRE the boards were all removed and a transformer was replaced then the arm and a leg amp breaks again after all that happens and its in someone elses collection. So the builder who is a known builder makes them for 6500 dollars each and advertises them as exactly not kinda like but exactly what the original amp was built for another artist and he uses that artists name to sell the amp but the amp cant be what the original artist it was made for because it caught on fire and all the boards were changed.. ethical ? Unethical ? Greasy ?

Ok now someone buys said arm and leg amp for small arm and leg USED they put better tubes in the amp
and it does not sound as good so they put the original not so great tubes back in it and they record it and while
they own the amp the find out from the builder himself that the amp was never anything like the original arm and leg amp
because the builder admits oh none of the boards had Smurf or epoxy on them and never had any sign of epoxy in them.
The used amp buyer knows for a fact the original arm and leg amp DID have boards with epoxy on them and after the fact of paying full retail for a used amp he decides something is shady and he records that said amp in question and then
dials in the amp NOT using Tone Matching but using his knowledge and ears to get that same sound and even better
changing up the tone stack and adding filters and changing the tubes even within the axe fx but that said user uses
Cliffs amp which he paid an arm and a leg for..

Not even the same circuit at all nor the same original amp to begin with but said used amp owner
figures out how to get the same sound only he is using an own hammer IR and the rest is all
Fractal settings which were taken from other efx amps ect..

Said used amp owner cant use Own hammer Ir because thats their hard work and investment
So Said used amp owner records his own arm and a leg cabinet with the same speakers
and said owner applies knowledge he invested alot of time and money into...

Finding not just one arm and a leg amp but several of them using his own knowledge and ears..

Is the said used amp owner unethical or not civil for bringing this to light ?
is said used amp owner who did pay arm and leg prices for a Real amp which is not a clone
and does the same thing what then ?

Is used amp owner and Original amp owner unethical or would used arm and leg amp owner and Original amp owner be well within legal grounds to record and make what ever he wanted to keep and use for himself and sell both tube amps off to recoop his lost investment and what about selling patches would this person who bought both amps full price
be unethical or a douce bag for selling both amps and trying to regain his investment and sell some patches even every patch he derived on his own using his knowledge and ears...

Would said arm and leg and original amp owner be a Rat if he decided not to sell patches but rather encourage others to do the same and use their ears and knowledge ?
Would the arm and leg original amp owner be a Rat if he decided to sell some patches but wanted to protect his original
very expensive investments ?

Would the original arm and leg amp owner be considered a Rat for telling the truth about the original arm and leg amp
to make sure no one else fell for such a misleading advertisement or would he be considered an asset to the community and the tube amp buyer world for telling the truth about not only the arm and leg phoney amp and the original real amp ?

If two trains left one leaves Colorado and one leaves Nashville which train arrives first would it be the
Train with the truth on it or would it be a Train with a Lie on it ?

Two over weight egotisical tube amp builders build some amps one is real expensive and the other
is expensive one steals the information from the other and decides to go into business then claim
what he is selling is 1:1 not kinda like but look no further spot on to the real amp which was sold over and over and over
revoiced over and over again after it caught fire and was sent back too the REAL ORIGINAL BUILDER to have new boards and new transformer installed and the original buyer the amp was made for to begin with hears it again and says no it does not sound the same as it did when Real Amp Builder sends it back after years HAD PASSED....

Do you think the original artist who the amp was made and voiced for to begin with would know what the amp sounded like to begin with and if that Original Artist confirmed that all the boards were in fact epoxied in dark purple epoxy and the amp came back to him completely changed inside boards and transformer and sound would that person be respected for his word or would he be considered unethical or mistaken.. uncivil things like that ?


Who would the unethical term apply too the original builder who voiced the amp for the Original Artist
or would it be applied too the Builder who took it upon himself to build a CLONE of the amp that sounded nothing like the original amp sounded to begin with and have the nerve to advertise its exactly what the original builder made for the original artist... ?

I hope this was explained in a civil manner...

I as the one who bought both the arm and leg amp and the REAL arm and leg amp
used my ears and knowledge to come up with those patches....

So I am asking was I unethical to do that and then was I unethical to tell this truth to help others
avoid getting taken too the cleaners on a lie.. ?

Would I be considered a chosen one to make my own patches and sell them or is that for a special breed of people
who are chosen to sell patches.. ?

Would anyone blame me if I chose to not sell patches at this point ?

Just questions im trying to rationalize in my own mind after being called every name in the book
just for knowing what the difference is not only parts wise but sound wise...

Does anybody actually give a damn ?
lol
Click to expand...
Ok, now my head hurts!
Two blondes fall down a hole. One says, "It's dark down here, isn't it?" The other replies, I don't know. I can't see!"
At this point in the thread I guess I'm the second blonde.
 
Tex Axe said:
Hypothetical here I take my tube amp I paid an arm and a leg for to someone to fix the amp
while they are fixing the amp they decide ok if im fixing it then im going to build them and sell it
and if you got a problem with that then tough ok so the guy who takes the arm and a leg amp to be fixed
gets the amp fixed then the amp is sold as something else which belonged to someone else to begin with and it was voiced
for that said artist but the amp CAUGHT FIRE the boards were all removed and a transformer was replaced then the arm and a leg amp breaks again after all that happens and its in someone elses collection. So the builder who is a known builder makes them for 6500 dollars each and advertises them as exactly not kinda like but exactly what the original amp was built for another artist and he uses that artists name to sell the amp but the amp cant be what the original artist it was made for because it caught on fire and all the boards were changed.. ethical ? Unethical ? Greasy ?

Ok now someone buys said arm and leg amp for small arm and leg USED they put better tubes in the amp
and it does not sound as good so they put the original not so great tubes back in it and they record it and while
they own the amp the find out from the builder himself that the amp was never anything like the original arm and leg amp
because the builder admits oh none of the boards had Smurf or epoxy on them and never had any sign of epoxy in them.
The used amp buyer knows for a fact the original arm and leg amp DID have boards with epoxy on them and after the fact of paying full retail for a used amp he decides something is shady and he records that said amp in question and then
dials in the amp NOT using Tone Matching but using his knowledge and ears to get that same sound and even better
changing up the tone stack and adding filters and changing the tubes even within the axe fx but that said user uses
Cliffs amp which he paid an arm and a leg for..

Not even the same circuit at all nor the same original amp to begin with but said used amp owner
figures out how to get the same sound only he is using an own hammer IR and the rest is all
Fractal settings which were taken from other efx amps ect..

Said used amp owner cant use Own hammer Ir because thats their hard work and investment
So Said used amp owner records his own arm and a leg cabinet with the same speakers
and said owner applies knowledge he invested alot of time and money into...

Finding not just one arm and a leg amp but several of them using his own knowledge and ears..

Is the said used amp owner unethical or not civil for bringing this to light ?
is said used amp owner who did pay arm and leg prices for a Real amp which is not a clone
and does the same thing what then ?

Is used amp owner and Original amp owner unethical or would used arm and leg amp owner and Original amp owner be well within legal grounds to record and make what ever he wanted to keep and use for himself and sell both tube amps off to recoop his lost investment and what about selling patches would this person who bought both amps full price
be unethical or a douce bag for selling both amps and trying to regain his investment and sell some patches even every patch he derived on his own using his knowledge and ears...

Would said arm and leg and original amp owner be a Rat if he decided not to sell patches but rather encourage others to do the same and use their ears and knowledge ?
Would the arm and leg original amp owner be a Rat if he decided to sell some patches but wanted to protect his original
very expensive investments ?

Would the original arm and leg amp owner be considered a Rat for telling the truth about the original arm and leg amp
to make sure no one else fell for such a misleading advertisement or would he be considered an asset to the community and the tube amp buyer world for telling the truth about not only the arm and leg phoney amp and the original real amp ?

If two trains left one leaves Colorado and one leaves Nashville which train arrives first would it be the
Train with the truth on it or would it be a Train with a Lie on it ?

Two over weight egotisical tube amp builders build some amps one is real expensive and the other
is expensive one steals the information from the other and decides to go into business then claim
what he is selling is 1:1 not kinda like but look no further spot on to the real amp which was sold over and over and over
revoiced over and over again after it caught fire and was sent back too the REAL ORIGINAL BUILDER to have new boards and new transformer installed and the original buyer the amp was made for to begin with hears it again and says no it does not sound the same as it did when Real Amp Builder sends it back after years HAD PASSED....

Do you think the original artist who the amp was made and voiced for to begin with would know what the amp sounded like to begin with and if that Original Artist confirmed that all the boards were in fact epoxied in dark purple epoxy and the amp came back to him completely changed inside boards and transformer and sound would that person be respected for his word or would he be considered unethical or mistaken.. uncivil things like that ?


Who would the unethical term apply too the original builder who voiced the amp for the Original Artist
or would it be applied too the Builder who took it upon himself to build a CLONE of the amp that sounded nothing like the original amp sounded to begin with and have the nerve to advertise its exactly what the original builder made for the original artist... ?

I hope this was explained in a civil manner...

I as the one who bought both the arm and leg amp and the REAL arm and leg amp
used my ears and knowledge to come up with those patches....

So I am asking was I unethical to do that and then was I unethical to tell this truth to help others
avoid getting taken too the cleaners on a lie.. ?

Would I be considered a chosen one to make my own patches and sell them or is that for a special breed of people
who are chosen to sell patches.. ?

Would anyone blame me if I chose to not sell patches at this point ?

Just questions im trying to rationalize in my own mind after being called every name in the book
just for knowing what the difference is not only parts wise but sound wise...

Does anybody actually give a damn ?
lol
Click to expand...

 
Last edited:
levipeto said:
I bought it for the collection of the effects.
Click to expand...

This is where I find the most value in examining other users presets. I've learned a TON of clever routing tricks and chaining FX from awesome preset creators like Moke, M@, simeon, Fremen, Danni, LPD, yek, and several more users. A lot of them have very interesting and novel ways of using ADSR, pitch detect, etc. that have opened some doors for me and stimulated new ideas.
 
Jimmytwotimes said:
I have tried many of the presets in axe change, ones people post in the recording threads, and preset of the day. I find that due to the differences in the way people use the axe fx, and differences in equipment, that 98% of these don't transfer well to my rig. I have heard recordings people have made here and think, man that sounds amazing! When I download the preset, it sounds like shit. Like others have said, it's just knob turning. The key here is, knowing what knobs to turn and what will sound best for YOUR equipment and the way YOU are using it. I would much rather buy a book where someone can explain in great detail - this knob does this. A combination of these knobs do this- if you want to sound like ( insert fav guitarist ) you should do this- etc etc etc. Otherwise aside from paying someone to come to my home and create a preset for every song, solo, effect- I'm happier to learn how best to do it myself.
Click to expand...
Agree
 
I prolly would't buy any presets because I have about 300 that I love in my Axe already. But if people want to pay for them thats cool to me.
 
Like it or not, it's a free market. Buyers will decide what has value and will drive demand in the process. As long as there are folks that are willing to pay for presets, there will be people who will make and sell them.

If people don't like that direction and want to ensure that the spirit of sharing is not lost in this community, all they have to do is contribute. Share some work, starts some threads, ask some questions. The more people that contribute to the free info, the less value the paid info will ultimately have. Why pay for what is being given out for free. Ultimately that will require folks to do the hard work of learning how to create good presets, be willing to share that knowledge, and not expect anything in return. Otherwise the market will do it's thing.
 
I believe in the free market too.

I'm not sure how anybody selling something affects someone who doesn't buy the presets?

Would the butt hurt be lower if the preset makers had an "every block created from scratch" certification? For all those who believe no one else's presets are worth buying, ummm just don't buy the presets?

What about the consultants that charge to help clients with their rigs and preset programming? You don't see them advertising in the forum but they are out there (I think).
 
barhrecords said:
What about the consultants that charge to help clients with their rigs and preset programming? You don't see them advertising in the forum but they are out there (I think).
Click to expand...
That is primarily what I currently do in regards to getting sounds for clients out of the axefx products. Given what the environment was when I ceased the Tone Clone Presets, I thought it wise to use other channels of advertisement. That decision hasn't hampered anything. There was (maybe no longer) a view by a vocal minority that since the axefx was at the price point that it was, presets and help in creating presets should be freely given. To me, IMO, that point of view essentially devalues the experience and talent of those offering the services to the point of being worthless. I felt at the time, any attempt to offer those services would have been shouted down and condemned by the previously mentioned and chose to use other venues.

It does appear however, that things have possibly changed in a better direction. There are still uncertainties about what constitutes piracy of ideas and originality of ideas but I think those will continue for some time until a decent set of standards are arrived at for digital creations.

Here's a good hypothetical,

If I (or anyone) take a basic preset containing an amp and cab block. Arrange the advanced parameters in such a way as to make the amp feel amazing to play as well as sound great. Does that qualify as being an original marketable product? Does it matter that it took my decades long experience of building and modifying tube amps to gain the knowledge to know what to tweak and how much to tweak? Is there value in that in this market?

Of course once the cat is out of the bag as to the settings on that particular amp, anyone can copy it without needing to know or even caring why it worked. So just building a preset for the market, to me, really isn't where my niche is. It's educating people do this for themselves.

My 2 cents....
 
groovenut said:
That is primarily what I currently do in regards to getting sounds for clients out of the axefx products. Given what the environment was when I ceased the Tone Clone Presets, I thought it wise to use other channels of advertisement. That decision hasn't hampered anything. There was (maybe no longer) a view by a vocal minority that since the axefx was at the price point that it was, presets and help in creating presets should be freely given. To me, IMO, that point of view essentially devalues the experience and talent of those offering the services to the point of being worthless. I felt at the time, any attempt to offer those services would have been shouted down and condemned by the previously mentioned and chose to use other venues.

It does appear however, that things have possibly changed in a better direction. There are still uncertainties about what constitutes piracy of ideas and originality of ideas but I think those will continue for some time until a decent set of standards are arrived at for digital creations.

Here's a good hypothetical,

If I (or anyone) take a basic preset containing an amp and cab block. Arrange the advanced parameters in such a way as to make the amp feel amazing to play as well as sound great. Does that qualify as being an original marketable product? Does it matter that it took my decades long experience of building and modifying tube amps to gain the knowledge to know what to tweak and how much to tweak? Is there value in that in this market?

Of course once the cat is out of the bag as to the settings on that particular amp, anyone can copy it without needing to know or even caring why it worked. So just building a preset for the market, to me, really isn't where my niche is. It's educating people do this for themselves.

My 2 cents....
Click to expand...



Bingo!!!!!!! You win!!!

I know your background of amps, because I have spoken to you about these things. But if you remember I also told you to Create a Video series around it. I was serious. You would make a killing and I would buy everyone of them.

Thanks for chiming in!
 
@groovenut that makes perfect sense to me.

I would hope a buyer sees value in what they are buying. And if the service or product is not really of any value, the market, i.e. the buyers, would simply go away.

So in your case, a vast experience with real amps and a good knowledge of Fractal programming is value added.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom