Preset Building: Tone Morphing

current with Riff/Solo1 Xt4 [experimental]

scene1 - "riff channel"
amp1:X = 5153Blue -------> cab1:X left = 4x12 Basketweave TV Mix
amp2:X = Herbert ch2+ --> cab1:X right = 4x12 1960a GM12M (RW)
morphs to clean

scene2 - "solo channel"
amp1:Y = 5153Red -------> cab1:X left = 4x12 Basketweave TV Mix / cab1:X right = 4x12 1960a GM12M (RW)
morphs to clean with delay

scene3 - "clean channel"
amp2:Y = JCM800 -------> cab1:Y left = 4x12 Basketweave Green Mix / cab1:Y right = 4x12 Basketweave AX Mix
XP heel down fades in a chorus

scene4 - "crunch channel"
amp2:Y = JCM800 -------> cab1:Y left = 4x12 Basketweave Green Mix / cab1:Y right = 4x12 Basketweave AX Mix
uses a comp to add boost for the crunchier tone
XP heel down fades in a chorus [sounds a little Rushy]

IA - Vibe on/off

XP2 - wah
 
here's a high level overview..

scene1 - Riff
1st comp - bypass: thru
2nd comp - assigned to XP1 and is used to thicken the 'cleaned' tone as the XP travels to the heel down position
Row2 Vol - assigned to XP1 to reduce the level of the signal entering the amps to assist with cleaning the tone
all other Vol blocks are muted
Amps1 and 2 - X:side are the riffing tones amp1 panned left, amp2 panned right
PEQ parallel with dry to mix1 - as XP1 travels to heel down, mix1 crossfades the dry with the PEQ
within mix1 - row2 "dry" level reduces / row1 PEQ level increases as XP1 travels to heel down
PEQ: Row1 provides a large boost to the lows and highs to prevent the tone thinning as it cleans
PEQ: Row2 is muted
cab1: stereo X side
"The Matrix"
mix2: Row2: the 'dry' signal path passes through the delay and chorus [which are both bypass: thru] to mix2: gain2
mix2: Row1: the 'wet' reverb and shifter fade in as XP1 travels to heel down to add ambience
mix2: Row3: in riff mode this level remains at 0
GEQ: Row2: this is the Riff mode final EQ amd level, all other GEQ blocks are muted

scene2 - Solo
1st comp - bypass: thru
2nd comp - assigned to XP1 and is used to thicken the 'cleaned' tone as the XP travels to the heel down position
Row1 Vol - assigned to XP1 to reduce the level of the signal entering the amps to assist with cleaning the tone
all other volume blocks are muted
the reason this is a different volume block is:
--- it provide a large boost to the signal for more gain
--- must have a much larger reduction in level to clean the tone
Amp1 - Y side soloing tone
Amp2 is muted
PEQ: Row1 provides a large boost to the lows and highs to prevent the tone thinning as it cleans
PEQ: Row2 is muted
within mix1 - row2 "dry" level reduces / row1 PEQ level increases as XP1 travels to heel down
PEQ provides a large boost to the lows and highs to prevent the tone thinning as it cleans
cab1: stereo X side
"The Matrix"
mix2: Row2: the 'dry' signal path passes through the delay and chorus
the delay un-bypasses but the chorus remains bypass: thru
mix2: Row1: the 'wet' reverb and shifter fade in as XP1 travels to heel down to add ambience
mix2: Row3: this becomes active to act reverb and shifter wet signals to the soloing tone
GEQ: Row1: this is the Solo mode final EQ amd level, all other GEQ blocks are muted

scene3 - Clean
1st comp - becomes active to provide gentle compression when XP1 is toe down, becoming stronger heel down
2nd comp - remains active but does nothing because subsequent vol blocks are muted
Row3 Vol - assigned to XP1 to try to counteract the loss of level when XP1 travels to heel down and the amp drive reduces
[it kinda works but is not as elegent as it could be if the X and Y side amp modifiers could be assigned / set independently]
all other volume blocks are muted
the reason this is a different volume block is:
--- counter act changes in amp2 drive when XP1 travels
--- contains settings that keep the amp's tone clean
Amp1 is muted
Amp2 - Y side to clean amp [JCM800]
PEQ: Row1 is muted
PEQ: Row2 is used in the same manner as PEQ: Row1 but requires different settings for the JCM800
cab1: stereo Y side
"The Matrix"
follows 'riff' behaviour
Chorus wet level fades in as XP1 travels to heel down
GEQ: Row3: this is the Clean mode final EQ amd level, all other GEQ blocks are muted

scene4 - Misc [in this case 'crunch]
1st comp - becomes active to provide gentle compression when XP1 is toe down, becoming stronger heel down
2nd comp - remains active but does nothing because subsequent vol blocks are muted
Row4 Vol - assigned to XP1 to try to counteract the loss of level when XP1 travels to heel down and the amp drive reduces
[it kinda works but is not as elegent as it could be if the X and Y side amp modifiers could be assigned / set independently]
all other volume blocks are muted
the reason this is a different volume block is:
--- counter act changes in amp2 drive when XP1 travels
--- provides a large level boost to 'crunch' the tone
Amp1 is muted
Amp2 - Y side to clean amp [JCM800]
PEQ: Row1 is muted
PEQ: Row2 is used in the same manner as PEQ: Row1 but requires different settings for the JCM800
cab1: stereo Y side
"The Matrix"
follows 'riff' behaviour
Chorus wet level fades in as XP1 travels to heel down
GEQ: Row4: this is the Clean mode final EQ amd level, all other GEQ blocks are muted



EDIT: forgot to mention:
IA5 - phaser [vibe] on/off
XP2 - wah / XP2 toe switch - wah on/off
 
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Note to Clarky:
move the chorus in parallel with mix2
- note the impact on tone and wet signal level control
- try a longer "fade-in" modifier setting as XP1 moves to heel down

also experiment with chorus placed in series with the shunt block following the reverb
this will remove the need for a modifer on the chorus as it will follow the mix2: gain1 fader
all it needs is to be:
- bypass: thru in scenes 1 and 2
- active in scenes 3 and 4
 
Last edited:
clarky said:
Note to Clarky:
move the chorus in parallel with mix2
- note the impact on tone and wet signal level control
- try a longer "fade-in" modifier setting as XP1 moves to heel down

also experiment with chorus placed in series with the shunt block following the reverb
this will remove the need for a modifer on the chorus as it will follow the mix2: gain1 fader
all it needs is to be:
- bypass: thru in scenes 1 and 2
- active in scenes 3 and 4
Click to expand...

nope - note as nice sounding
 
clarky said:
Note to Clarky:
compare tone switching time / feel of scenes/x-y with modifiers
Click to expand...

the change over from riff to solo with scenes is pretty seamless but there is a small delay
the same change via modifiers is more immediate

under most circumstances this won't be exposed.. but there are one or two moments where this does stand out a little..
it's small.. very minor... but I'm just not used to it...

need to think on this before deciding on my final strategy
 
couple of thoughts....

scenes - adds a huge amount of versatility
seriously reduces the number of modifiers needed [which is an awesome plus]
but do I need that many amps in my presets?
probably not.. so long as I can get all the tones I need for a single song in a single preset I'm happy..
and I'm happy to keep adding more preset variants if need be [it's not as if there's a shortage of preset slots at 300+]

x-y - there is certainly a performance increase via scenes, and I think x-y is a great idea... mix it with other scenes switching and it becomes very powerful

I think the next experiment will be to create a hybrid of my original preset concept with scenes added..
but maybe try it without x-y switching the amps to see if it kills the delay...
don't get me wrong, the delay is minute.. but I play in some really nasty time sigs and in some situations the finger frets the note as the foot hits the 'soloing' switch..
this makes me pretty sensitive to any delay
if there's no delay bypassing and altering fx-block levels then I can use scenes to claw back a pile of modifiers, and modifiers to switch the amp tone for riff to solo and back..

I must say though that this has been a most educational and enlightening experience...

I'm going to goof around some more to look for the config that fits me best.......
this is a lot of fun
 
just re-read the crap I wrote above....
it kinda comes across a little negative, but it seriously shouldn't...
I'm really liking scenes and x-y..

and.... I've just had a new idea...
I think this may be quite cool...
got to goof with it first to see if it'll work as I imagine...

jeez... I got this little box jumping through some very cool hoops right now...
 
Clarky-

Really appreciate all the time u are putting into this, its somewhat overwhelming but finally
getting more of a grasp on what u are and have been doing. I have been using scenes with
the X-Y switching as well and for most part is working nicely for me... although i'm not
delving as deeply into the intricasies as u are. Thanks again and still following along and learning....
 
haa.. no worries matey..
this preset I'm working on right now is purely experimental..
before I move on to the next experiment I'll see if I can make a quick recording of it..
the tones are not totally dialled in as this endeavour is more about control and functionality...
but the recording should at least show you what it sounds like for a functional angle...
 
here's a clip of the preset..
it contains comments with respect to how I'm using the scenes / x-y / expression pedal [XP1]
I made a few goofs with the comments - sorry about that... lol..

Note: as this is an experimental preset I'm not too fussed about the actual tones
the object here was the functionality and behaviour

 
ahhh... just realised that I forgot to record the wah...
it's there in the preset.. nothing special, just the wah at it's default settings..
the main thing though for this experiment was to have it working - which it does...
 
Wow Clarky that is an incredible range of tones from a single preset, you've got my attention! The morphing really makes most of the transitions so seamless, nice work!
 
did the notes on the clip make sense?
I'm trying to get across how all this stuff behaves from a performance stand point
 
clarky said:
did the notes on the clip make sense?
I'm trying to get across how all this stuff behaves from a performance stand point
Click to expand...
It made perfect sense. It just takes some effort and concentration to take it all in. It's much easier to just plug in a preset and run with it. :)
 
I am on the same page as Rex. Once I get the preset up and running with axe edit and then figure out the pedal setup I will be good to go. I think your ideas here are great and have learned alot from this setup. Thanks!
 
how about this..

NEW EDIT - the preset cos it won't load right..
don't worry I'll sort out a fresh one

EDIT:
here's the MFC config

IA1: none / c1 CC:34 0 0 [scene1] / c2 CC:20 0 0 [modif: extern5]
IA2: none / c1 CC:34 1 1 [scene2] / c2 CC:20 127 127 [modif: extern5]
IA3: none / c1 CC:34 2 2 [scene3] / c2 CC:21 0 127 [modif:extern6]
IA4: none / c1 CC:34 3 3 [scene4]
IA5: none / c1 CC:23 0 127 [modif: extern8]

XP1: CC:16 [modif: extern1] <-- tone morphing
XP2: CC:17 [modif: extern2] <-- wah
XP2 toe switch: CC:24 [modif: extern9] <-- wah toe switch
 

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  • riffsolo1xt4.syx
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